Phil Grenadier

[jazz1]

Regarding my comment about the weak compositions, as mentioned above

it is the melodic content that is weak to my ears.

Very few originals these days seems strong enough to make them memorable.

There is so many great tunes around, and I am not refering to the great American song book, one can just listen to Kurt Elling new cd, to me his choice of material is just masterful.

Lots of artist maybe feel that they are doing something different by using original compositions, this is find, but then the musical/melodic content must be strong which unfortunately is rarely the case.

Mr Grenadier is no exception. I have 100's of cd whic suffer from the same problem and these includes BIG names. Composing is a skill that few jazz musicians are able to master, not evrybody can be a Wayne Shorter. Which is to me one of the greatest composer of modern jazz tunes.

One again this is my opinion.

For all of you that own "Playful intention" please let me know which track is your favorite.

[Joe G]

Now I understand where you're coming from jazz1. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, and I'm glad you took the time to explain it. No hard feelings, really.

[pryan]

Phil - Your new disc is waiting at the post office for me to pick up later on today. Can't wait to give it a spin, after a seemingly endless wait! I'll report back after I have time to "digest" it.

[Trumpet Guy]

Thanks Pryan!-I hope you enjoy it!But I'm scared now

Thanks Jazz1 for explaining your thoughts more.I appreciate your sharing your honest opinion.I don't disagree about your composition views.My 1st cd was more how you described--picking "great" tunes that I arranged.So this one I felt the need to develop my composing---You're correct--I've got a long way to go.

I learn much about myself and music making from people,like you and others.So thanks---I hope to evolve and see the beauty in your not liking my music.I'm working on it,but again have a ways to go....Happy listening.

[JSngry]

Hey, it's nice to know what people DON'T like. Remember how Trane said he wished he could hear his music from the perspective of someone hearing it for the very first time? It's not necessary to bend everything to "please" people, but having an idea of why the people who don't like your work don't like it gives you a little perspective. Sometimes you ponder and grow, and sometimes you strengthen in your resolve. Either way, it's a good thing.

Well, ok "nice" is not necessarily the right word , but you get my point, I hope.

Edited August 29, 2003 by JSngry

[Trumpet Guy]

Yeah Jim-right on!

You always strike me as someone who has "evolved"--much wisdom I get from JSngry!!Thanks!!

[jazz1]

Jeez you guys are just so nice.

As i said even the "great" do not write good original tunes, I suppose that I am old fashioned, same with the guitar sound, BTW Kurt plays very well it is just this awful sound that bugs me, an old fashion Gibson would be great.

I sincerely hope that Phil will never play processed/electric trumpet!!!

2 months ago I saw a very well known quintet live, won't mention

names, just now I get into more trouble. I did not know it would include an hard body electric guitarist, yike it just spoilt the whole performance.

Normally I sit through both sets, I left before the end of the first set.

I am a sucker for beautiful sound, tone, voice, anything accoustic.

Including wind chimes. Same with everything in life, including food

the least manipulated the better, the quality of the ingredients is the key

I really enjoy track 9, "5 out of 5" they could be a few more but !!??

The other things to me that are really important is passion and enthusiasm.

Sometimes I do feel that musicians are just doing a job!

I am an Art Pepper fan BTW, it may explain a lot.

I do tend to be a little abrupt, remember I waited something like 6 weeks to get the cd, I suppose that my expectations where not reasonable.

[Joe G]

I am a sucker for beautiful sound, tone, voice, anything accoustic.

Including wind chimes. Same with everything in life, including food

the least manipulated the better, the quality of the ingredients is the key

I'm with you on that. It's a beautiful thing.

/Off Topic/

There's a couple of books you might enjoy reading:

The Third Ear, by Joachim Ernest Berendt

The Listening Book, by W.A. Mathieu.

Some interesting insights into the art of listening.

/on topic/

[Joe G]

You do realize, however, that if you are listening to a cd, you're not listening to a "natural" sound. Doesn't matter if it's a recording of a string quartet or the Amazon rain forest, it's still a digitized version of the real thing... :rsly:

[Jim Alfredson]

I won't even ask what he thinks of the organ.

I'd rather play a hundred of my own "mediocre" compositions than re-hash standards for the rest of my life.

Better to take chances than to play it safe.

[jazz1]

Yeah I do agree, but how many times I wished that the live sounds was as good as what I get at home, some of these Jazz clubs PA systems are awful.

Another aspect where the musicians could take a little more care,

mixing, balancing etc.

[jazz1]

I won't even ask what he thinks of the organ.

I'd rather play a hundred of my own "mediocre" compositions than re-hash standards for the rest of my life.

Better to take chances than to play it safe.

give me a B3 anyday especially if Eddy Louis is playing it.

[JSngry]

Yeah I do agree, but how many times I wished that the live sounds was as good as what I get at home, some of these Jazz clubs PA systems are awful.

Another aspect where the musicians could take a little more care,

mixing, balancing etc.

Oooooh....

Don't blame the musicians unless you know it's their fault. My experience has been that A)Most soundmen are from Planet Bizzarro and B)even if the band is responsible for their own sound and takes the time and effort to get a good mix, the club mangement will complain it to death. If it were up to me, I'd play as all-accousticly as possible, but THAT gets you the evil eye in a lot of joints.

It's a dirty world, I tell ya'...

[Jim Alfredson]

Most soundmen have NO idea how to run sound for a jazz group. They only know how to compress the shit out of the drums, add tons of bass, and make everything as loud as possible.

We've had the pleasure of working with truly professional soundmen (one or two) that actually LISTEN to the band and act accordingly.

We've also worked with some fools. Right now we're putting together our own system so we don't have to deal with that anymore.

ps. Glad to hear you like organ! Eddy Louis is a great player.

[jazz1]

Thanks Jazz1 for explaining your thoughts more.

I do admit reading my first post that I made statement I should not have done wthout explaining the way I felt at the time.

First impressions are not always correct.

I've listen to the cd a few more times, and I am starting to enjoy it (in part)

Unfortunately this type of guitar sound has never been to my liking.

And I suppose will never be.

Please note that my critisism was not about Kurt playing which is very good

but purely about the guitar sound itself.

Some of the compositions still don't appeal TO ME, listening to the cd

many times over during the last few days I really to start to appreciate some of the qualities within.

One tends to make a judgment to quickly and when I played track 1 for the first time I had a friend of mine with me and we both commented negatively on the tune itself, this first track was maybe like the facade of a building and it prejudiced my judgment of the following numbers.

Once you go into the buiding you can start to appreciate some of the features.

Maybe it was similar with the cd.

I hope that this explains some of my early comments.

But I will never be convinced by track 11, to me it is self indulgent.

Once again please remember that it is my opinion only