Guest GregM Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 No kidding. At least 50% of it is hers. . .does anyone think she's going to let a bimbo get some? Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 (edited) No kidding. At least 50% of it is hers. . .does anyone think she's going to let a bimbo get some? Last time I checked, this was a 'criminal' case - not 'civil'. And I have a hard time believing this case would be followed by a civil suit, though I grant that stranger things have certainly happened before. More than anything, I just wish people would shut the fuck up about this case, and let it play out in the courts, hopefully behind closed doors. About 95% of that statement is directed at our beloved press (primarily broadcast media), though I've reserved about 5% of the statement for future use, depending on how long this thread gets. Edited July 22, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote
RonF Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 Yes, women do falsely accuse men of rape but statistically it is rare. It's important to remember that rape is an act of violence. A young woman should be able to be in a man's hotel room at any hour of the day without being raped or threatened with rape. To argue the "she was asking for it" defense does nothing but reveal an ignorance about rape. Many men feel it is "their right" to have sex if a woman, foolishly or not, chooses to be alone with him. Mike Tyson is the text book. His way of thinking was, "If you're here. I'm taking it." Of course, it's easier to imagine an animal like Tyson raping, but don't forget, the majority of sexual assault happens between two people who know each other. Family members and educated, all american, polite young men all rape. From abusive dating relationships in high school to commonplace unreported date rape in college, many men still don't understand that when a woman says no, he has to stop. It's perfectly logical to me and it has been shown to be the case that celebrities and specifically celebrity athletes, by and large, don't get it. We'll see what happens with Kobe. Personally, I don't believe him. Quote
Guest GregM Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 Family members and educated, all american, polite young men all rape. Tell that to the guy who said Kobe doesn't fit the "profile" of a rapist. Quote
RonF Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 Family members and educated, all american, polite young men all rape. Tell that to the guy who said Kobe doesn't fit the "profile" of a rapist. I was listening to a sports talk program today and Kobe's early statement was brought up. He said to reporters before the charges were filed, "You know me. I wouldn't do anything like that." The upshot was that NOBODY knows who Kobe Bryant is. Not even his teammates. An article in Newsweek says that Kobe used to shower and dress in a seperate area from the rest of the team. The guy is strange. Quote
Big Wheel Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 An article in Newsweek says that Kobe used to shower and dress in a seperate area from the rest of the team. Well if comedian Richard Lewis is to be believed about the size of Shaq's "6th man," I can sympathize! Quote
Jazzmoose Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 More than anything, I just wish people would shut the fuck up about this case, and let it play out in the courts, hopefully behind closed doors. About 95% of that statement is directed at out beloved press (primarily broadcast media), though I've reserved about 5% of the statement for future use, depending on how long this thread gets. Amen. Have you guys ever been hanging out with friends talking, and the conversation takes a turn and you start to learn things about your friends that you could have really done without knowing? That pretty much describes this thread for me. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 (edited) RonF, would you expand on what you mean by this statement?? Family members and educated, all american, polite young men all rape. In particular, I'm wondering if you're suggesting something along the lines that "all men are potential rapists". (A statement that I've heard and read in other contexts.) Or if you're trying to say something else, please explain. I want to understand you viewpoint on this. And I'd like to be clear about what you're trying to say, before I respond. Thank you. -- Rooster T. Edited July 22, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 Amen. Have you guys ever been hanging out with friends talking, and the conversation takes a turn and you start to learn things about your friends that you could have really done without knowing? That pretty much describes this thread for me. Amen, right back at you Moose. I don't whether to take the time to dive into this, and back it up with some heavy quoting from some of my favorite male "gender issues" authors... ...or whether to ignore this thread, and vow never to open it back up again. I'm torn, and leaning towards the latter choice. But unfortunately, I feel some duty towards the former choice as well. Quote
RonF Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 Rooster, Are all men potential rapists? Sure they are. You think not? The fact is, rapists come in all shapes, sizes, ages and colors and they come from every imaginable background. That's what I was saying. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 (edited) To further clarify, RonF, you weren't saying "all men are potential rapists" (although you did just say that, literally), or in other words "every man is a potential rapist". (I should have been more clear myself, my apologies.) Both of those statements (as I've just reworded them) are really what I was getting at before, and both are statements I've heard and read before. I'm probably still not being totally clear... I know this is wordy, but this really gets at what I think you might (or might not) have been saying: "Collectively, every man - meaning the entire male half of the human species - has the real and actual potential, within each and every one of them, to rape, and be a rapist." Or if you're simply saying that rapists can be of all shapes, sizes, colors (races), income-brackets, GPA's, etc... ...then you and I are in total agreement. I hope you realize that I'm not trying to start a big argument, and I only want to take this line of thought further if, in fact, there's a need to. Thanks!! - and I appreciate your patience with me in trying to sort this out clearly, rather than this turning into a flame war for no good reason (possibly). A lot of this has to do with semantics, and rather than blindly think you said one thing, when you meant something different, even subtly different - I'd rather make sure I don't 'go off' without good reason. Peace. (I know, this is some heavy shit - but without voice inflection, it's difficult to get to the subtlety of what I'm trying to get at.) Edited July 22, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote
BERIGAN Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 This is a strange subject....I have heard from quite a few women thru the years say that women are asking for it if she is wearing too short a skirt, or too tight a dress....and I am just dumbfounded, what is the point, give guys the idea that in some instances rape is understandable/expect almost? I have long been confused by societies desires to blame victims, and sympathize with attackers....remember the free Mike Tyson shirts? Once his victim showed up on TV, it was damn clear to be she was just a very young, naive woman who had never come across the likes of him before, but some hated her for daring to mess up his boxing career! I bet you after this trial, this woman is going to wish she never came forward, she and her family are going to receive death threats...the lakers might not win it all because of her charges against him! Ron is right, most rapists(like most murderers) are "regular" folk. Many a story on 20/20, dateline, whathaveyou have gone on to show that some suit wearing man with a wife and kids turns out to be a serial rapist.....and like those other rapists, child molesters, they cannot be rehabilited for the most part Quote
RonF Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 Good points Beri. Some sports media are still glorifying Tyson the Rapist. Rooster, I'm not sure where you're going. I know that 20pt Scarlet Red RonF makes me a little jittery. As far as I can tell, we're in agreement. And you're right, semantics can get in the way with this. To say that all men are capable of rape is, I think, a reasonable statement. To say that all men have the potential for rape is perhaps more confusing, although still accurate, in my opinion. Having said that, I am certainly not implying that we're all rapists just waiting to be triggered. Thankfully, most of us have morals and values that prevent that from happening. I'm sure that The Eagle County DA and investigators, counselors from the Rape Crisis Intervention Team and her lawyers have all informed Bryant's accuser of what lies in store for her and how brutal a process this will be. Sometimes you do what you have to do because it's right....regardless. Quote
jlhoots Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 While reading the last post (Berigan), I noticed the Chomsky quote at the bottom. Is this some sort of "ironic" reference? Please consider clarifying. Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 To say that all men have the potential for rape is perhaps more confusing, although still accurate, in my opinion. Having said that, I am certainly not implying that we're all rapists just waiting to be triggered. Thankfully, most of us have morals and values that prevent that from happening. I'm trying to puzzle this one out. Must admit I cannot recall ever fantasizing about raping any women. Of course, lots of fantasies about women raping ME!!! Hasn't happened yet... though I'll be patient... Nah!!, I'm happily married. (Happily waiting for it to end... Just kidding... I'd be loooossssttt without her! Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 Rooster, I'm not sure where you're going. I know that 20pt Scarlet Red RonF makes me a little jittery. As far as I can tell, we're in agreement. And you're right, semantics can get in the way with this. I've nuked the "20pt" type in my previous posts – sorry about that. I just wanted to make sure you saw my questions, since they were directed towards you. I think we're more in agreement, than disagreement - though I might still quibble with the finer details of, well, the semantics of things. I am strongly pro-women's rights and gender equality, but there is a wing of academic feminism (not all of academic feminism, but part), that has taken to labeling all men (meaning "every man") as being a potential rapist that hasn't yet actually committed rape. And they believe that majority of men think about rape all the time (sex = rape), and (for a few of the most extreme authors) for whom sex between a man and a women is, by definition, a kind of rape. I was in a round-table discussion group around men's issues for a number of years, several years ago, and when I hear anything that sounds like it's going down that road... Well, let's say that I was good this time and didn't start flaming away. I think it's probably best to recognize that we probably agree more than we disagree on this point, and I should probably just leave it at that. Peace. Quote
catesta Posted July 22, 2003 Report Posted July 22, 2003 I was listening to a sports talk program today and Kobe's early statement was brought up. He said to reporters before the charges were filed, "You know me. I wouldn't do anything like that." The upshot was that NOBODY knows who Kobe Bryant is. Not even his teammates. An article in Newsweek says that Kobe used to shower and dress in a seperate area from the rest of the team. The guy is strange. Word! Quote
Tjazz Posted July 23, 2003 Author Report Posted July 23, 2003 Supposedly, about 60% of men responded that they would take advantage of a woman, if they could get away with it. Face up to it, men are not that civilized, look at all the criminals and dishonest CEO's. Men love to fight. Didn't Bush just take us to war? If we didn't have sports, we'd kill ourselves. The world is full of warlords and gang members. In most of the world, women have no rights. Men take advantage of them. Quote
Jim Alfredson Posted July 23, 2003 Report Posted July 23, 2003 Supposedly, about 60% of men responded that they would take advantage of a woman, if they could get away with it. Face up to it, men are not that civilized, look at all the criminals and dishonest CEO's. Men love to fight. Didn't Bush just take us to war? If we didn't have sports, we'd kill ourselves. The world is full of warlords and gang members. In most of the world, women have no rights. Men take advantage of them. Wouldn't this be true for just about anything immoral? I'm sure 60%+ people would say that they'd kill somebody if they could get away with it. Or steal $100,000. Or rip off a nice car. Quote
Jazzmoose Posted July 23, 2003 Report Posted July 23, 2003 Wouldn't this be true for just about anything immoral? I'm sure 60%+ people would say that they'd kill somebody if they could get away with it. Or steal $100,000. Or rip off a nice car. Now that's a depressing thought... Quote
Guest GregM Posted July 23, 2003 Report Posted July 23, 2003 I'd delete all of mark's posts if I could get away with it. Quote
BERIGAN Posted July 24, 2003 Report Posted July 24, 2003 While reading the last post (Berigan), I noticed the Chomsky quote at the bottom. Is this some sort of "ironic" reference? Please consider clarifying. jlhoots, I made this my signature line(s), I put it in a different color, but perhaps I need to do more to make sure no one confuses were post ends, and signature starts...I'm not clever enough to be ironic! Quote
Jim Alfredson Posted July 25, 2003 Report Posted July 25, 2003 Man, this is getting out of hand. Everywhere you look, on every channel, on the radio, it's Kobe this, Kobe that. ENOUGH! Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted July 25, 2003 Report Posted July 25, 2003 Just shut the fuckin' tube off, completely - that's my solution. Anymore, I pretty much only watch the 5:30pm national news (usually ABC), and "The News Hour" on PBS at 6pm (never hardly any Kobe there!!!), and then "The Daily Show" at 10pm. I check CNN.com and ABCNews.com off and on during the day, but I almost never turn on the 24-hour news stations anymore, cuz they all gone and FOX-i-fied themselves. Reminds me of when the whole O.J. trial was going on. I had just moved to Kansas City, and didn't have a TV that worked. I used to read the newspaper for updates, maybe once a week at most (and often just the first couple paragraphs of the story, and to hell with the rest). But my main point is that I didn't have a TV for most of that year, and I am SO incredibly glad that I didn't see any of the O.J. media crap on TV. All my coworkers and friends were complaining about it, but I barely even knew what they were talkin' about!!! Quote
Tjazz Posted September 3, 2004 Author Report Posted September 3, 2004 I guess this 19 year old also outsmarted the Colorado prosecutor. First she says YES, let's prosecute. Then she says NO, let's stop. Sound familiar? It took the Colorado prosecutor several days (or was it weeks) to figure out that NO means NO. Quote
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