Swinger Posted January 7, 2006 Report Posted January 7, 2006 What's the best sounding CD of this wonderful session? Quote
Rosco Posted January 7, 2006 Report Posted January 7, 2006 None of them. They all sound like crap. Although somehow it works in the music's favour. Wonderful album. Quote
JSngry Posted January 7, 2006 Report Posted January 7, 2006 None of them. They all sound like crap. And they always will. That shit was not "recorded well" originally. My advice - go for the LP/LPs and hear it the way it was originally heard. Less frustration that way. Quote
ep1str0phy Posted January 7, 2006 Report Posted January 7, 2006 None of them. They all sound like crap. And they always will. That shit was not "recorded well" originally. My advice - go for the LP/LPs and hear it the way it was originally heard. Less frustration that way. A real shame, regardless. Larry Young sounds like he's being recorded in a bathroom. Compare "Emergency" with the sound on the Blue Note sessions, or even "Turn It Over"--geez! Quote
Rosco Posted January 7, 2006 Report Posted January 7, 2006 Indeed. There's something about the distortion, buzzing and fuzz that just makes it right! If it was recorded clean and crisp it would probably lose some of its period mystique. That shit was meant to be fuzzy, dirty and- well, let's just say it- psychedelic! Now, add some good ol' surface noise in there... Quote
Parkertown Posted January 8, 2006 Report Posted January 8, 2006 What's the best sounding CD of this wonderful session? A good post from your same thread over at the SH board: Thread on the Hoffman board Posted by Shakti: There may be a Japanese one that smashes all other versions, I don't know... But leaving that possibility out, there have only been two versions: 1991 Polygram version, remixed by Phil Schaap. It has more clarity than the original mix, but sounds harsh and hard to me. 1997 Polygram/Verve version, original mix. It reproduces all the wooly, muddy sound of the original mix. I prefer it to the remix, despite its shortcomings. Sounds like a decent transfer to me, compared to the tracks I have on vinyl (admittedly only on a fairly cheap mid-70s midprice best-of thing). The important thing here is to BUY THIS ALBUM!! in whichever format or mix you can get your hands on. I can tell it completely turned my world upside down when I first heard it a few days before Christmas in 1994. My God, what a shocker of a record!!? Nothing else before or since sounds like it. Completely out of the blue - how can anyone play like that? How can anyone even *think* about playing like that? The incredible thing is that, as amazing as this record is, there are a few live recordings (horrible sound) in circulation that take them to yet another level... Quote
ep1str0phy Posted January 8, 2006 Report Posted January 8, 2006 Anyone want to chime in on those "circulating" live tapes? Repertoire? Personnel (Bruce or Bruceless)? Quote
Stereojack Posted January 8, 2006 Report Posted January 8, 2006 A real shame, regardless. Larry Young sounds like he's being recorded in a bathroom. Compare "Emergency" with the sound on the Blue Note sessions, or even "Turn It Over"--geez! I saw the group live at the Jazz Workshop in Boston the first time they came out. The first LP pretty accurately captures what Young sounded like with this band - very loud and distorted. It didn't bother me at the time, though. Neither did Tony's vocals........... I wonder if Larry may have changed his setup by the time they made "Turn It Over". Quote
Stefan Wood Posted January 8, 2006 Report Posted January 8, 2006 Apparently there is an unreleased session done after Ego. with Bruce but minus Larry Young, and add a bunch of other musicians. Don't know any thing else about it, though.... Quote
mikeweil Posted January 8, 2006 Report Posted January 8, 2006 Yes they were not recorded very well - but that sound is logical to me, given the raw quality of that music. They had to make some weird adjustments of a multi-track machine for the CD transfer, as the original tape machine was gone - it must have had some bad azimuth maladjustments. This has to sound that harsh and distorted - I cannot imagine that music with a clean B3 sound - PLAY IT LOUD !!! Quote
jazzbo Posted January 9, 2006 Report Posted January 9, 2006 Man, oh man. . . I've tried to like this music ever since the lps came out. . . . I just don't and it's not the sound that keeps me from doing so! I used to feel that I SHOULD. But. . . what the heck, I yam what I yam. Quote
JSngry Posted January 9, 2006 Report Posted January 9, 2006 What the hell is gun swording your kid? Quote
ep1str0phy Posted January 9, 2006 Report Posted January 9, 2006 Yes they were not recorded very well - but that sound is logical to me, given the raw quality of that music. They had to make some weird adjustments of a multi-track machine for the CD transfer, as the original tape machine was gone - it must have had some bad azimuth maladjustments. This has to sound that harsh and distorted - I cannot imagine that music with a clean B3 sound - PLAY IT LOUD !!! But man, Larry Young wasn't exactly a clean player (later on, anyway). Practically all of his post-Blue Note work is drenched in electric fuzz--and I don't think it's just the recording quality. Even some of the BN sides are just caustic; Young was reaching for that brain-busting, Voice-Of-Godish thing well into the late 60's/70's (and--tangentially--some of his solos on "Emergency" sound remarkably Ayleresque to me). I dig that dirty B3... he's just so hard to hear some times (on "Emergency"). McLaughlin is up front, Tony Williams plays loud and gets recorded hot... but Young is so off-in-the-back it's a little difficult to get a hold of what he's doing. Even when he's playing fairly melodic, "Unity"-esque lines, he sounds discomfitingly distant. Contrast that to "Turn it Over," where Young peeks through the ensemble a little more clearly. As far as I'm concerned, that record does a better job of defining the McLaughlin/Young/Williams group dynamic. Although the numbers are shorter, the subtleties of the ensemble sound--everything from Tony's paradiddles to Khalid's horror-movie swells--are somewhat easier to hear. More importantly, the power is still there (dig the opening onslaught of Corea tunes--now that is punk jazz). Quote
WD45 Posted January 9, 2006 Report Posted January 9, 2006 THe mix is clear enough for me to hear a squeaky part on Williams' kit. Quote
Joe G Posted January 9, 2006 Report Posted January 9, 2006 What the hell is gun swording your kid? Um, apparently it's when you plunge a sword into his chest. Don't do that! Quote
Guest akanalog Posted January 9, 2006 Report Posted January 9, 2006 Apparently there is an unreleased session done after Ego. with Bruce but minus Larry Young, and add a bunch of other musicians. Don't know any thing else about it, though.... i have a lifetime bootleg called "the stockholm sessions" or "wildlife" from i think 1975 which has alan holdsworth and tequila logan and webster lewis and jack bruce and i am not sure who else which i think is probably the unreleased session you are talking about. i am pretty sure that is what it is-an unreleased studio session. it's pretty good. not sure if it is better than "ego" but i am pretty sure it is better than "the old bums rush". Quote
7/4 Posted January 9, 2006 Report Posted January 9, 2006 Here's what I have: Tony Williams Lifetime 1974 Unreleased Album Wildlife aka The Stockholm Sessions The Lifetime for this recording on the Wildlife/Stockholm Session is: Tony Williams: Drums Allan Holdsworth: Guitar Webster Lewis: Keys Jack Bruce: Bass Laura "Tequila" Logan: Vocals Track List: 1. Scirocco 2. Hot & Sticky 3. Little Zorro 4. Happy Tears 5. The Spirit bonus: From The 1971 EGO Tour Personnel unknown: 6. Prelude/ Mystic Knights of the Sea 7. Pooky In the Cut Notes; This comes from an unreleased album cut by this band Circa 1974 early 75.. The playing is good, the song's do sound like works in progress..The arrangments are not that good on some tunes, but the playing by Allan and Tony are great.. Enjoy it for what it's worth.. the bonus song's have Tony killin' as usual. He is playing great on these tunes. I have no idea where these song's come from ..They came as bonus song's on the disc. Most likely they are the "ego" band from that album, but that is a guess.. Enjoy it for what it is..great players playing great music!!! Quote
Swinger Posted January 9, 2006 Author Report Posted January 9, 2006 I guess you guys made it very clear.No matter which version I'm going to buy, it sounds like crap but I don't mind.There is even right now one auctioned at ebay.com. I'm going to get that one.It's been at least 5-6 since I borrowed this cd from some library here in Finland and I loved it! Quote
ep1str0phy Posted January 9, 2006 Report Posted January 9, 2006 I guess you guys made it very clear.No matter which version I'm going to buy, it sounds like crap but I don't mind.There is even right now one auctioned at ebay.com. I'm going to get that one.It's been at least 5-6 since I borrowed this cd from some library here in Finland and I loved it! That's the spirit! Quote
jazzhound Posted January 10, 2006 Report Posted January 10, 2006 this recording suffers from a the "room sound" syndrome. some listeners clamor for a recording that captures the sound of a band in a room but when they hear it they complain about the sound. this record sounds like New York City to me. I could do without the noisy connection on Young's organ though. there must be someone with live tapes from Slugs out there.... Quote
jazzhound Posted January 13, 2006 Report Posted January 13, 2006 SOMETHING SPIRITUAL is a gem on this album. Quote
mikeweil Posted January 13, 2006 Report Posted January 13, 2006 this recording suffers from a the "room sound" syndrome. some listeners clamor for a recording that captures the sound of a band in a room but when they hear it they complain about the sound. You've hit the nail on the head here ... that's exactly what it sounds like! And that's perhaps the reason I like it. Quote
CJ Shearn Posted January 13, 2006 Report Posted January 13, 2006 I still gotta grab this one. Tony's vocals on that one song crack me up "things don't change in the bed, just cause your wed. mmhmm, that's right, you heard me" something like that. I read somewhere that "Emergency" had some effect on the punk scene, as an influential album, any truth to that? Also the liners to VSOP "Live Under the Sky" state Tony made a punk album for Columbia that was rejected. Quote
mikeweil Posted January 13, 2006 Report Posted January 13, 2006 I read somewhere that "Emergency" had some effect on the punk scene, as an influential album, any truth to that? I dunno, but I noticed the influence of Tony's new heavy drumming style was all over the progressive rock scene after "Believe It" was out. Quote
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