Dexter Gordon

[xybert]

I'm continuing to thoroughly enjoy exploring Dexter Gordon's music. Great music for making me feel solidified rather than dispersed, which is just what suits me at the moment.

I've been wondering: I know it's been mentioned in this thread and in the opening paragraph of his Wikipedia article it says "He was among the earliest tenor players to adapt the bebop musical language of people such as Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, and Bud Powell to the instrument." I've been wondering about how innovative Gordon was in this regard. I mean, did he make any major breakthroughs in terms of adapting bebop to the Tenor sax? Was it something that musicians were struggling with at the time and then he figured it out, leading the way, or was it going to happen anyway and he just happened to be 'among the earliest' because he was in the right place at the right time? Cheers.

[Gheorghe]

Well I think it was Dexter´s highly individual aproach of the bop-vocabulary. He didn´t just play "Diz or Bird" on his instrument. He managed to get his own style, like Bud, like J.J. Johnson, so I consider him one of the main artists of that style.

And he managed to live longer than many of the creators of that style. Like Dizzy, he still was active, when most of the others were dead. Dizzy could play anything, but he didn´t need to play bebop, he WAS bebop. Same with Dexter.

[John L]

I'm continuing to thoroughly enjoy exploring Dexter Gordon's music. Great music for making me feel solidified rather than dispersed, which is just what suits me at the moment.

I've been wondering: I know it's been mentioned in this thread and in the opening paragraph of his Wikipedia article it says "He was among the earliest tenor players to adapt the bebop musical language of people such as Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, and Bud Powell to the instrument." I've been wondering about how innovative Gordon was in this regard. I mean, did he make any major breakthroughs in terms of adapting bebop to the Tenor sax? Was it something that musicians were struggling with at the time and then he figured it out, leading the way, or was it going to happen anyway and he just happened to be 'among the earliest' because he was in the right place at the right time? Cheers.

Well, Bird himself played a lot of bebop on the tenor saxophone when he was playing in the Earl Hines and Billy Eckstine bands in 1943-1944. In some sense, Coleman Hawkins was playing bebop on the tenor saxophone before anybody. Teddy Edwards, Wardell Gray, and Don Byas were also playing a lot of bebop on the tenor saxophone as early as Dexter played it.

Like Gheorghe wrote, I think that Dexter Gordon's great achievement was not in facilitating the use of the tenor saxophone for bebop, but in the development of a highly individual and profound approach to playing it.

[xybert]

Thanks for the insights guys, it's helped me to get my head around it and put it in perspective. I've really had blinders on with regards to Dex and his place in jazz history.

[JSngry]

If you want to "contrast and compare" early bebop tenor, listen to James Moody w/Dizzy's band. He's playing more purely from Bird than did Dexter.

Here's Dex from 1943, purely a Prez guy, and you can hear how that part of him stayed for his entire life.

[xybert]

I won't front and say that i can hear it, haven't listened to enough Lester Young to confidently say "oh yeah, i fully hear the Prez there", but i think i get it. Will have to look up some James Moody with Dizzy stuff.

I have been listening to a lot of Dex's 40s stuff... seriously digging it. I kind of thought that my enthusiasm may start to wane but his music has seriously gotten under my skin. I am cherry picking (i know there are some duds out there) but it's amazing how every album i buy keeps hitting the spot, even the lesser celebrated ones. I won't blather about how he's the jazz musician that i've always wanted to hear but it's like his whole thing is just right.

[Larry Kart]

Re: Jim Sangrey's post about Moody with Dizzy's big band, the best Moody with Diz I know is here:

http://www.amazon.com/Dizzy-Gillespie-And-Band-Live/dp/B000001OTH

Don't recall right now which track it is, but there's one Moody solo here that I'd swear Ornette went to school on. It's a kind of a "phrase shift" thing, where an inspired and/or footloose Moody lets a slab of changes and accents slide a fair bit to one side of where they normally belong and, at once trying to stitch things together on the run and feeding on the outre relationships that crop up, make it all work like crazy. It's akin to something that Bird could have come up with, but he would have been utterly in control of it all, while Moody is close to driving off a cliff. And again, I'll bet that at some point the young Ornette was listening.

[Gheorghe]

It´s hard for me now, cause I´m afraid it will be OT, but if you talkin about James Moody and bop tenor, dig his solos on the Miles Davis-Tadd Dameron album from Paris 1949. That´s some first class Moody and very very advanced.

Believe it or not: When I bought that album in (1977), my main man on tenor was Dave Liebman, I still was almost a kid and didn´t know all the guys, Liebman was in town and playin great.

When I heard some stuff Moody played on the uptempo tunes like "Allen´s Alley" etc. , it sounded really advanced with some avantgarde screams, the stuff that had impressed me when I heard the only tenor player I knew.....Dave Liebman.....

Back to Dexter: I´m not sure, but I think Dexter was on the scene a bit earlier. He had started with Mr. B in 1944, and if I´m right, Moody started with Diz two years later.

It´s strange, but Dex got more exposure than Moody. That´s like Diz or Fats, who got more exposure than Maggie, who also was a helluva trumpet player....

[xybert]

Just a random thought: listening to Rhythm-A-Ning from The Jumpin' Blues...

Dex just absolutely rocks it. There's no self-consciousness or reverence-to-the-point-of-handicap... it's brotherly love rather than worship.

The way he just warmly smiles his way through it in an absolutely nothing to prove way is just so insanely endearing.

It's like, it's a celebration of Monk, and he gets it without having any need whatsoever to broadcast that he gets it.

There's no agenda, it's just pure joy. It just really stood out to me and something about this song just encapsulates why i'm loving Dex so much right now.

[BFrank]

I was watching Antiques Roadshow tonight when this appraisal came up. Amazing not only for the photographs, but for who brought them in: Dexter's daughter.

Check it out here: Dexter Gordon Photo Group

[king ubu]

Fascinating! What's this, one of those tv shows where folks bring anything and experts of some kind try and determine if it's of any value?

[Dan Gould]

I was watching Antiques Roadshow tonight when this appraisal came up. Amazing not only for the photographs, but for who brought them in: Dexter's daughter.

Check it out here: Dexter Gordon Photo Group

Very cool. Also cool that its an appraiser who knows a little bit. Or else she was called upon to do some quick research, pre-taping.

Fascinating! What's this, one of those tv shows where folks bring anything and experts of some kind try and determine if it's of any value?

Yes, they've been on for a long time, going around the country as a free appraisal service. Ever see the sit-com Frazier? There was a very funny episode built around Antiques Roadshow in which Frazier and Niles go from believing that they are descendants of Russian aristocrats to realizing that instead they come from "whores and thieves".

[paul secor]

I was watching Antiques Roadshow tonight when this appraisal came up. Amazing not only for the photographs, but for who brought them in: Dexter's daughter.

Check it out here: Dexter Gordon Photo Group

Very Cool! Thanks for the link. I hope she keeps them in her family and passes them on to the next generation.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Oh, that's really nice!

MG

[BFrank]

Amazing how 'matter-of-fact' she is about her family heritage, too: father/Dexter, grandfather/Duke's doctor!

[Leeway]

I don't think anyone has focused in on the appraised value ($15,000 for the group). Does it seem right, or put it another way, is it likely to bring that in the open market? Seems high to me.

The other question, if these were to be sold, would be whether to sell them individually or as a group. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.

Hard to establish values in this area, but I think the appraisal is overly-optimistic. $6,000-$8,000 seems more likely.

[xybert]

Amazing how 'matter-of-fact' she is about her family heritage, too: father/Dexter, grandfather/Duke's doctor!

Great link, and yeah i really liked her whole demeanor. Seems like a cool lady.

[BFrank]

I don't think anyone has focused in on the appraised value ($15,000 for the group). Does it seem right, or put it another way, is it likely to bring that in the open market? Seems high to me.

The other question, if these were to be sold, would be whether to sell them individually or as a group. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.

Hard to establish values in this area, but I think the appraisal is overly-optimistic. $6,000-$8,000 seems more likely.

The appraiser said that was "insurance value" which is always higher than market value.

Of course you never really know what you might get in an auction situation.

[romualdo]

Wonderful slice of jazz history & genealogy - love the pic of "younger" Duke

Didn't realise there was a US version of the show - we get the UK production here in Australia

[mjzee]

Interview with Maxine Gordon 2013

[paul secor]

Thanks for posting the interview.

[Gheorghe]

Yeah I think I read this interview. It´s from 2013. But nothing new about the book she want´s to publish about Dexter.

[mjzee]

While poking around the Net, I found Ted Panken's liner notes for The Complete Prestige Recordings box.  Enjoy: https://tedpanken.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/on-dexter-gordons-89th-birthday-my-liner-notes-for-the-complete-prestige-recordings-of-dexter-gordon/

[mjzee]

Dex made a great series of recordings at The Jazzhus Montmartre in July 1967.  Some list the recording date as 7/20/67, though one source lists it as 7/20 & 21/67.  These tracks are available over 4 CDs: Body And Soul, Both Sides Of Midnight and Take The "A" Train (all Black Lion/1201 Music) and Live At The Jazzhus Montmartre (Jazz Colours).  Does anyone know the exact recording sequence of these tracks?  Was also wondering how many sets these were, and whether they were spread out over two days.  Many thanks in advance.

[sidewinder]

On 26/05/2014 at 8:22 AM, BFrank said:

I was watching Antiques Roadshow tonight when this appraisal came up. Amazing not only for the photographs, but for who brought them in: Dexter's daughter.

 

Check it out here: Dexter Gordon Photo Group

'Whoa' indeed !