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NEW, NEVER HEARD, DIZZY & BIRD FROM UPTOWN

JSngry

By JSngry
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JSngry Grand Master

JSngry

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I agree with Francis, as I understand his point - as a matter of fact, clearly Byas agreed as well, as his stage departure was surprising and unannounced.

Geez, I just figured he left because the guy he was filling in for showed up.

John Tapscott Mentor

John Tapscott

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much as I l love Sid  Catlett, on this date, Max sweeps him away

Just curious, Allen, who you think is playing on the last cut, 52nd Street.

The liners credit Max but several here (including Chuck, Sangrey and Lon)

think it's Sid. That's my guess as well.

What do you think?

It's a great CD, but I'm confused. Small point really. On p. 16, the notes read "....the public prevails and Big Sid remains at the drums for a loping version of Monk's 52nd Street Theme." So the liners are crediting Sid, right? I lean to Sid myself on 52nd St., and without taking anything away from Sid, I think that Max is OUTSTANDING on his tracks.

Free For All Newbie

Free For All

Posted
Posted (edited)

much as I l love Sid  Catlett, on this date, Max sweeps him away

Just curious, Allen, who you think is playing on the last cut, 52nd Street.

The liners credit Max but several here (including Chuck, Sangrey and Lon)

think it's Sid. That's my guess as well.

What do you think?

It's a great CD, but I'm confused. Small point really. On p. 16, the notes read "....the public prevails and Big Sid remains at the drums for a loping version of Monk's 52nd Street Theme." So the liners are crediting Sid, right? I lean to Sid myself on 52nd St., and without taking anything away from Sid, I think that Max is OUTSTANDING on his tracks.

You're absolutely right, John. I missed that and was referring only to the back of the CD which credits Sid with tracks 5 and 6 only.

My fault for poor reading comprehension. Thanks for clarifying. :g

Edit: ..and I think both drummers sound magnificent.

Edited by Free For All
Chuck Nessa Mentor

Chuck Nessa

Posted
Posted

It's a great CD, but I'm confused.  Small point really.  On p. 16, the notes read "....the public prevails and Big Sid remains at the drums for a loping version of Monk's 52nd Street Theme." So the liners are crediting Sid, right? I lean to Sid myself on 52nd St.,  and without taking anything away from Sid, I think that Max is OUTSTANDING on his tracks.

Max plays his ass off during the concert, and gives us the first view of a "totally bebop quintet". Prior to this recording all commercial bop records included a "ringer" from the previous era.

I would hope all really serious fans of the era would listen (and chart sequentially) the commercial recordings of the time. I have done this and it's really informative.

I decided the cymbal playing on 52nd nailed it as Sid - that was my call. I still think it is Catlett on drums here though S Crouch and L Schoenberg think it's Max.

AllenLowe Proficient

AllenLowe

Posted
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do not as agee about Byas, as here was a guy who was as competetive as they come, and who went to the trouble to show up - I will repeat my earlier assertion that he was seriously upstaged, and, as I mentioned, this is supported by what musicians who were actually playing at the time reported as the contemporarty response from other musicians - and Chuck's point about the use of the word "context" is right on the money-

JSngry Grand Master

JSngry

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Competitive is one thing, professional is another. He wasn't contracted to play the gig wit that group and was merely a stand-in for Bird until Bird arrived. It would have been unprofessional to remain, as this was a concert, not a jam session.

I've no doubt that he wanted to stay and play. This was music that he had been actively involved in, and he played it very well. I'm sure that, based on what I know about him, that he was probably chomping at the bit to hamg around and blow, especially since by June of 1945, he might well have been feeling the first gusts of the draft, and it no doubt didn't sit well woth him. But that would not be professional behavior in this context. In June of 1945, Don Byas was still a player with a name on the New York scene. To cause a disruption at a Town Hall concert would not be a good career move, and I'm pretty sure that he was smart enough to realize that.

Think about it - here's Don Byas, one of the most competitive and proud men in the hstory of the music, a man whose resolute determination to position himself as a "modern" tenor man, no matter what, was perhaps his defining characteristic, all of a sudden being so overcome by feelings of inadequacy in a concert of music which he was intimately familiar with that he turned tail and ran out. That just doesn't make sense.

tranemonk Community Regular

tranemonk

Posted
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Just about every damn website is like..."backordered"... 2-5 weeks... Guess the NY Times article did it's job...

Can anybody get this? Not sure when (or from where) I'll get my copy....

any suggestions?

Lazaro Vega Apprentice

Lazaro Vega

Posted
Posted

To put the concert in context, too, and correct me if I'm wrong in the specifics, it needs to be mentioned that Byas had his own spotlight on this stage; that the Bird and Diz part was only one "set" of an evening featuring Erroll Garner's Trio by itself, then with Byas as well as Buck Clayton, and the finale was Pearl Bailey. What survives of Byas and Garner's material is not timid, or outdated. Though the Garner material was of it's time, Byas is timeless, and his music was a feat of sound and imagination that he exudes confidence. When you said he made a sudden and un-accounced for exit I thought you meant to Europe! When the Don Redman Band brought bebop to Europe it was with Byas, Billy Taylor and Tadd Dameron's charts as the bearers of the new sound. So, clearly a transitional figure who's style wasn't as old as Hawk or Pres. By the crowd reaction in Town Hall it is clear that Big Sid is a Star. I'm sure what Allen is talking about is true for musicians yet the musical changes were still coming on with the public, and the crowd sounds electrified to have Sid come on stage. They obviously loved him.

BruceH Newbie

BruceH

Posted
Posted

Since it's backordered everywhere, I just physically bought a copy at a store (Amoeba)----very nice to just go out, buy a CD, bring it home, play it, and love it. I'm just old-fashioned, I guess.

medjuck Proficient

medjuck

Posted
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Last week Robert Fulford devoted his entire Natinal Post column to kvelling about the cd . Fulford's been a culural commentator for decades. (I used to guest on his CBC radio show many years ago.) I tried to provide a link but failed. Perhaps someone more computer savvy than me (eg any 13 year old) could find it.

Fulford suggests (regretfully) that the concert may replace the Massey hall concert as the great Bop event.

If you're in Canada can you order directly from the good doctor?

Edited by medjuck

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