Paul Bley before 1970

[jazzbo]

I have--not a major difference imo.

[mjzee]

Werner hasn't said which master tapes he's working from, or even if he's working from master tapes, or even if they're correctly licensed.

[Late]

On 2/24/2025 at 11:56 AM, Simon8 said:

Some of my very favorite music. I'd be curious to hear if that sonic restoration makes a difference (anyone did the comparison with other ezz-thetics reissues?)

I have the compact disc of Footloose! on a Japanese release (COCB 50603), and recently compared it to the new ezz-thetics release. I'd say the new ezz-thetics release is worth hearing. The sound on these recordings was never great. The music of course is near revolutionary at times.

Some observations:

• The editions I have do sound different. There isn't necessarily a "better" version. The Japanese edition has a wider stereo spread, more noticeable tape hiss, and warmer bass. The piano and drums are slightly recessed.

• The ezz-thetics edition is narrower in its soundstage, almost mono sounding at times, and brings out the piano and drums. Brändli seems to have somehow shifted LaRoca's drums from the right channel to the center—but only for some tracks.

• The ezz-thetics edition, because the drums are much clearer (while occasionally at the expense of Swallow's bass), really had me focus on how in sync Pete LaRoca was with what Bley was doing. In my mind, I always pair Paul Motian with Bley for this period. But these Savoy recordings, especially in this ezz-thetics edition, reveal how much of a listener LaRoca was. He's clearly into the music and not just keeping time.

• I prefer the warmth of the bass in the Japanese edition. The ezz-thetics edition doesn't sound bad, just different for the bass—punchier, I guess. Hearing it with more clarity has made me consider whether Swallow had been listening to Charlie Haden around this time. I've never really noticed the Haden-isms in Swallow's playing.

• I'm very familiar with the original 8 tracks of this album, and much less familiar with the additional 5 tracks and 2 alternates. For me, the ezz-thetics edition is valuable for the additional tracks, but they do break up the order of the original album. Not sure why Werner did that. Perhaps this was the original recording order? It's silly that the two alternates were left off when there was plenty of room to include them, but I actually think (though have no proof) that Werner listens to his own product, and wanted the listening experience to omit these tracks.

• I doubt very much that Brändli's transfer is from the master tapes. I also doubt that this reissue was licensed from the appropriate estates. When Werner licenses stuff with approval (as he has with Desiree Ayler for all the Ayler reissues), he always prints that on the packaging.

• Comparing the two editions I have has made me listen closer to the music. I've always liked these recordings, but now I'm thinking about how forward-thinking they must have been for the time. I'm a big Bill Evans fan, but Evans just can't compare to Bley as far as pushing the music out of the safety zone of the piano trio format. I think Scott LaFaro would've loved this album. Had he lived, I think he would've been open to performing with Bley. Whether Bley would've been receptive...I'm guessing yes, but who knows.

[clifford_thornton]

Huh. I'd be interested in hearing it without spending $20 on something I already own... happy to have a minty first Savoy LP for the "original" order and while it doesn't sound like a modern recording, I do enjoy it immensely.

[Simon8]

Thank you for that thorough review, Late! (gonna put Footloose! right now )

Edited Wednesday at 08:48 PM by Simon8

[colinmce]

The 2 additional takes were not issued until 1990, I believe. This likely presents copyright problems (ironic, I know).

[JSngry]

4 hours ago, Late said:

I have the compact disc of Footloose! on a Japanese release (COCB 50603), and recently compared it to the new ezz-thetics release. I'd say the new ezz-thetics release is worth hearing. The sound on these recordings was never great. The music of course is near revolutionary at times.

Some observations:

• The editions I have do sound different. There isn't necessarily a "better" version. The Japanese edition has a wider stereo spread, more noticeable tape hiss, and warmer bass. The piano and drums are slightly recessed.

• The ezz-thetics edition is narrower in its soundstage, almost mono sounding at times, and brings out the piano and drums. Brändli seems to have somehow shifted LaRoca's drums from the right channel to the center—but only for some tracks.

• The ezz-thetics edition, because the drums are much clearer (while occasionally at the expense of Swallow's bass), really had me focus on how in sync Pete LaRoca was with what Bley was doing. In my mind, I always pair Paul Motian with Bley for this period. But these Savoy recordings, especially in this ezz-thetics edition, reveal how much of a listener LaRoca was. He's clearly into the music and not just keeping time.

• I prefer the warmth of the bass in the Japanese edition. The ezz-thetics edition doesn't sound bad, just different for the bass—punchier, I guess. Hearing it with more clarity has made me consider whether Swallow had been listening to Charlie Haden around this time. I've never really noticed the Haden-isms in Swallow's playing.

• I'm very familiar with the original 8 tracks of this album, and much less familiar with the additional 5 tracks and 2 alternates. For me, the ezz-thetics edition is valuable for the additional tracks, but they do break up the order of the original album. Not sure why Werner did that. Perhaps this was the original recording order? It's silly that the two alternates were left off when there was plenty of room to include them, but I actually think (though have no proof) that Werner listens to his own product, and wanted the listening experience to omit these tracks.

• I doubt very much that Brändli's transfer is from the master tapes. I also doubt that this reissue was licensed from the appropriate estates. When Werner licenses stuff with approval (as he has with Desiree Ayler for all the Ayler reissues), he always prints that on the packaging.

• Comparing the two editions I have has made me listen closer to the music. I've always liked these recordings, but now I'm thinking about how forward-thinking they must have been for the time. I'm a big Bill Evans fan, but Evans just can't compare to Bley as far as pushing the music out of the safety zone of the piano trio format. I think Scott LaFaro would've loved this album. Had he lived, I think he would've been open to performing with Bley. Whether Bley would've been receptive...I'm guessing yes, but who knows.

Ok then, how does this new one compare to the US Savoy CD The Floater Syndrome?

I have both it and the Japanese issue. Both have both alternates.

Fwiw, I'm not a big Bill Evans fan, and agree wholeheartedly about Bley vs Evans. No contest imo.

[T.D.]

3 hours ago, colinmce said:

The 2 additional takes were not issued until 1990, I believe. This likely presents copyright problems (ironic, I know).

Thanks. That explains a lot.

[Late]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

Ok then, how does this new one compare to the US Savoy CD The Floater Syndrome?

I don't have that disc, but I'm sure other members here do. I listened to the ezz-thetics edition three times today. My ears are getting used to Brändli's transfer. I like it. That said, if one already has the music, then passing on the (relatively expensive) ezz-thetics issue allows for funds to go elsewhere—always a good thing. 👍

[jlhoots]

All the Bley is good whatever format.

[mjazzg]

19 hours ago, jlhoots said:

All the Bley is good whatever format.

Yes to this sentiment