The Arkestra

[Allan Songer]

I've spent the whole weekend in a Sun Ra groove. Everything from the first Transition LP through The ESP LPs and "Atlantis" and "Languidity" to a live set from Atlanta in the late 80's. John Gilmore was truly a tenor god.

Anyone here attend any live Sun Ra shows? I saw a few in the Bay Area in 70's and early 80's and another in L.A. in the late 80's.

[rostasi]

After well over a dozen performances seen

and nearly 150 recordings later, I can safely say

that your assessment is truly accurate.

[clifford_thornton]

You have the original Transition LP?!?

[Rooster_Ties]

Saw Ra with the Arkestra but once, in Chicago circa 1990 -- sometime after his first stroke.

Since then, I've heard the Arkestra sans Ra three or four times, all here in Kansas City.

Sun Ra was one of my first exposures to jazz, from my uncle - who used to talk about a couple Arkestra performances he saw in Chicago in the late 70's and 80's. When I took the Jazz History 101 course back in college (circa 1989), I did Sun Ra for my final project/paper. Didn't know what to make of any of it in any real sense, but by then I had heard a good half-a-hundred hours of Jimi Hendrix bootlegs by - so I at least had some experience listening to somewhat "out" stuff (relatively speaking). I'm sure my final project was pretty lame, but everyone has to start somewhere. (Also, it was kinda cool to be doing it on a subject area the professor didn't know a whole lot about. )

Edited December 5, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[Allan Songer]

You have the original Transition LP?!?

Yep. I have all of the original Transition jazz releases EXCEPT the Lucky Thompson one (21--which was a reissue of some French sides anyway and I do have the Xanadu reissue!) and the "Dartmouth Indian Cheifs" (27) which I have never seen and an not sure I even want!

I once owned the Russeel Woolen one (15) but traded it for a nice flat-edge deep groove

Blue Note 1515 (Jutta Hipp). I made out--the guy I traded with needed this one to COMPLETE his Transition collection--he admitted to me that he'd probably only play it ONCE. But I understand--as I put my Blue Note collection together (I have at least one original copy of each title) there were a few I knew I wouldn't play all that often (Dodo Greene, anyone?).

You know, Transition's numbering system was almost as chaotic as El Saturn--as far as I can tell the numbers of the albums that were issued were 1,2,4,5,10,15,17,19,20,21,23,27,30. Perhaps I am missing one or two, but if so the records have to be REALLY obscure!!

Edited December 5, 2005 by Allan Songer

[clifford_thornton]

I have a lot of respect for what Sunny and the boys were up to - and still are - but my interest in listening to it stems from a few recordings. The early sides on Transition/Delmark and Saturn, the ESPs and any of the '64-'67 Saturns are pretty much where I stand with it. "Strange Strings" is especially nice, though it doesn't exactly sound like the usual Ra fare...

And I say: Damn, Allan.

Edited December 5, 2005 by clifford_thornton

[Allan Songer]

I have a lot of respect for what Sunny and the boys were up to - and still are - but my interest in listening to it stems from a few recordings. The early sides on Transition/Delmark and Saturn, the ESPs and any of the '64-'67 Saturns are pretty much where I stand with it. "Strange Strings" is especially nice, though it doesn't exactly sound like the usual Ra fare...

Damn, Allan.

Those are the sides I listen to as well--plus the solo piano records, the Philly Jazz LP and that live in Atlanta 2-record set from the larte 80's. MOST of the El Saturn 70's and 80's stuff just doesn't hit me hard enough to dig around and find . . .

[clifford_thornton]

I agree on _most_ of the El Saturn stuff that I've heard, especially of the '70s and '80s. Granted, with Ra I tend to do better with a smaller group and a bop-schooled drummer, which is what I like about the earlier sides (even the ESPs are 'rooted' IMO). Never got into the Philly Jazz; I think I traded mine.

[Allan Songer]

I agree on _most_ of the El Saturn stuff that I've heard, especially of the '70s and '80s. Granted, with Ra I tend to do better with a smaller group and a bop-schooled drummer, which is what I like about the earlier sides (even the ESPs are 'rooted' IMO). Never got into the Philly Jazz; I think I traded mine.

The title cut of the Philly Jazz record with it's Ellington/Mingus meets Ra in space groove really moves me. The rest of the record is a sort of Ra Disco--relentless and can be pretty tiring if you're not in the mood.

[clifford_thornton]

Your latter point was all I could remember about the record. Oh well.

[rostasi]

You have the original Transition LP?!?

Yes. Sun Ra was one of those "fixtures" in my growing up stage.

Some of this was due to my mother's interests.

In his "Sonny" days she had occasionally gone to the Club DeLisa.

I'm trying to figure out who it was that she used to love to go see.

(I'm mixing up Red Prysock, Arthur Prysock, and Red Saunders in my brain at the moment).

Anyway, Sonny would "fill in" on some nights.

Also, she very possibly saw him even earlier performing on Torrance Ave in a suburb of

Chicago known as Calumet City. So my interest started as a child.

Many of the Saturns had practically no information on them.

I have some in white covers with and w/o center holes...

some in a garish brown-gold...some with squiggles done in colored pens

that would emanate from the center outwards...and so on.

Of course, I'd buy anything that came out on other labels as soon as I could

and living in Chicago it wasn't too difficult to go down to the JRM and pick up, say,

a recording on Horo.

The first performance that I remember was in '72 at an Ann Arbor festival.

(Art Ensemble played too). I think it was around Sept 9, (a step-sister's b-day),

but my mom claims that she took me to see him before that,

but you'd think that I would remember that.

Anyway, many performances after that and in cities outside of Chicago -

even here in the Dallas area - well, Ft. Worth to be exact.

A truly amazing man with an amazing gift.

My wife (who'd seen him too) cried buckets of tears when he died.

[JohnS]

I was lucky enough to see Sun Ra on two of his London visits. The first was an electrifying occasion (although the fire eaters were banned because of fire regulations I was told). With members of the band, two baritone players particlularly, blowing from all corners of the hall, the costumes and the theatrics it was something to behold.

On the second visit I was very fortunate to be asked to accompany the late Peter Clayton (broadcaster and journalist) when he interviewed Sun Ra in his hotel room. I don't know what happened to the tape or if it was ever broadcast, but I do recall the tape ran out after half an hour and Peter let Ra carry on for at least another thirty minutes. I was certainly in awe of the great man being so close to him but regretably I have little recollection of what was said but it was mostly a rather rambling but interesting monologue from the soft spoken and thoughtful Ra about his philosophy. I was slightly disappointed that there was little or no discussion of his music. Another abiding recollection of that day was Alan Silva in the hotel corridor in his underwear.

[clifford_thornton]

Another abiding recollection of that day was Alan Silva in the hotel corridor in his underwear.

Now why THAT didn't make the back cover of an Actuel we'll never know...

[Guest akanalog]

the horo albums from the late 70s are great.

at least the two quartet albums i have heard-sun ra, john gilmore, michael ray (who i never liked because of his pandering to the suburban hippie crowd but he can play) and luqman ali....nice stuff.

[Michael Weiss]

I heard an unreleased ESP came out fairly recently. How does it compare to Heliocentric Worlds I and II?

To me these records are some of the best examples of organized free playing. You know there's some organization, but, what is it? Is Sun Ra just pointing at who he wants to play?

It's never discussed much, but one of my favorite Sun Ra tracks is the title tune (side one) from Pathways to Unknown Worlds. This piece builds so beautifully. Turn out the lights and light a joint!

[sidewinder]

I saw Ra and the Arkestra a couple of times in the late 80s - once in Toronto and then a few months later in Boston (pre-stroke). The Toronto gig was particularly good, seemed to go on for ever. He also broke the concert up into self-containes sets - 'Greatest Hits', 'Disney', 'Tribute to Fletcher Henderson', 'More Greatest Hits'. Lots of good stuff - 'Rocket No. 9', 'Sunset on the River Nile' etc.

[clifford_thornton]

I heard an unreleased ESP came out fairly recently. How does it compare to Heliocentric Worlds I and II?

To me these records are some of the best examples of organized free playing. You know there's some organization, but, what is it? Is Sun Ra just pointing at who he wants to play?

Heliocentric v. 3 is pretty good - especially the first long track.

I reviewed it for Paris Transatlantic some months back; here's the link:

Ra and Ayler on PT

[Guest akanalog]

do people like ra's long blow out organ and moog solos from the 70s. seems like most of the live discs have at least one of these? i have mixed feelings. they are certainly overwhelmingly powerful and skillful but sometimes it isn't the nicest thing to listen to. i guess they are cool. i guess 'atlantis" has one too but for some reason i like the way that one works as the centerpiece to the title track and it goes well as perhaps the audio track to the sinking of atlantis.

[7/4]

the original Sun Ra thread.