Paul Bley

[JSngry]

Hmmm...

If nothing else, Bop-Be is some of the finest Dewey on record, imo. 

I've tried to be a Dewey completist, and I'm ok saying that some of those Jarrett records have some of the better Dewey out there. Not all of them, but some. 

[HutchFan]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I'm ok saying that some of those Jarrett records have some of the better Dewey out there. Not all of them, but some. 

I like all of the KJ Quartet records -- for many reasons, Dewey and then some.

 

[Mark Stryker]

On 3/29/2018 at 6:08 PM, JSngry said:

I dunno man, you think you get Keith Jarrett w/o Paul Bley first? The longer I listen, the less I think you do...and I think that Bley swings too. Consistently!

Now, is Keith Jarrett important? Not to you or me personally, but to the world beyond that? Judging my the fees he gets, at least somewhat.

Paul Bley is the kind of guy it's real easy to sleep on until you get woke to him. And then...

Of course it's true that you don't get Keith Jarrett without Paul Bley first, but that doesn't mean that Bley gives you everything that Jarrett does. especially as a bandleader. The American Quartet is an extraordinary group, innovative, that really pushed the language forward. That band levitated. "Shades" is the masterpiece of the discography, but I really like "Bop-Be" too. The sound of those records has been absorbed into the DNA of the music. That doesn't happen by accident, and it doesn't happen without Keith. Of course, it doesn't happen with out Dewey, Charlie and Paul either, but somebody's gotta lead the team and with those particular guys, that was no gimmie. 

I understand folks' reservations with Jarrett and the reaction to the '70s solo records and the 35 years of standards off-the-cuff and ho-hum . But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater and all that.

Coda: Speaking of the later trio, I personally think "Standards Live" is fantastic, still as fresh as the morning dew. God know that nobody needs 30 of those Standards Trio records -- but, "Standards Live," to me, is the one for skeptics to check out. You may not dig it, and that's cool. Different strokes etc. But if "Standards Live" doesn't do it for you, you can skip the rest with a clear conscience. But don't sleep on "Shades."

Edited August 2, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[Rooster_Ties]

7 hours ago, Mark Stryker said:

Of course it's true that you don't get Keith Jarrett without Paul Bley first, but that doesn't mean that Bley gives you everything that Jarrett does. especially as a bandleader. 

and Bley certainly isn’t the vocalist Jarrett is either.

[John L]

51 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

and Bley certainly isn’t the vocalist Jarrett is either.

[clifford_thornton]

I really like Dewey but am not a completist -- have the Fontana, BYG, Impulses, Old & New Dreams, Blackwell duo/trio, Dane Belany, ,Galaxy LPs and of course everything with Ornette, JCOA/Liberation Music... that's enough for the time being.

agree about Jarrett being a more consistent bandleader but some of those bands are really too consistent for my taste. I recognize his influence & what influenced him but that doesn't mean it interests me to listen to him either.

[mjzee]

Aren't there a lot of different Paul Bley styles?  I got the following Hat ART title and could not enjoy it.  I've come closer with others, but it seems to me that "joy" was not in his expressive abilities.  I wouldn't call his pervasive tone "blues"; "glum" is more like it.  For all the carping about Jarrett, he has far more of an expressive range.  Still, I'm sure I don't know most of Bley's oeuvre.

[clifford_thornton]

Earlier Bley is a different animal -- post-Bud/Hampton Hawes into an Ornette/Cherry-inspired knotty turnaround thing with shades of romanticism and occasional archness, eventually becoming more spare and gnarled but with a crystalline depth as you're hearing on that Hat Hut. 

[JSngry]

But even later Bley has many different angles. His Steeplechase output is mostly standards and other tunes and is just full of rompiness.

He could pretty much do what he wanted and/or whatever the producer wanted to pay for (like, I know that ECM would not want a Steeplechase record, or vice-versa), and do it well and sincerely.

The guy put in a lot of dues in a lot of places doing a lot of things.

[clifford_thornton]

Very true.

[Mark Stryker]

I am not the only one who wishes Sonny would have kept his band with Bley together for much longer than he did. 

Discography question: Is the trumpeter listed on the recording as Reshid Kmal Ali possibly Rashied Ali the drummer or are those two different guys? 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Mark Stryker

[mjzee]

This site seems to think it was a trumpeter named Rashid Ali.  They also have the entire concert:

https://pastdaily.com/2021/10/31/sonny-rollins-betty-carter-live-in-tokyo-1963-past-daily-downbeat/

 

[clifford_thornton]

Rashied Ali (drummer) did play trumpet and in fact studied with Bill Dixon, though I've never heard what he sounded like on that instrument. I do not know if it is the same person on this recording or somebody else.

[OliverM]

Stopping Time, Paul Bley's autobiography with David Lee is hard to find, at least in Europe. Would really enjoy reading it, if ever anyone has tips to find a copy.

[gvopedz]

3 hours ago, OliverM said:

Stopping Time, Paul Bley's autobiography with David Lee is hard to find, at least in Europe. Would really enjoy reading it, if ever anyone has tips to find a copy.

In France, the book appears to be at:

http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/cbs/xslt/CMD?DB=2.1&ACT=SRCHA&PRS=HOL&HLIB=861942101&IKT=8910&TRM=868808381

I read the book many years ago - I thought the book was good but I had the impression it could/should have been twice as long.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, too short. But good. I have it somewhere (possibly still in storage).

[JSngry]

I loved that book. Lots of detail told very obliquely.  And things still left unspoken. A prefect parallel to Bley's playing imo.

[clifford_thornton]

True, true.

As Juma Sultan said to me once, "if I tell you everything then I won't be able to write my own book."

[gvopedz]

What I most wanted to read in Bley's autobiography was his description/analysis/reflection/etc. of his time as a pianist with Jimmy Giuffre in the early 1960s.  The topic begins at the bottom of page 75 and ends in the middle of page 79.  Page 78 has only a photo.  On page 79, Bley concludes: "The two most important figures in the early days of avant garde jazz were both composers and reed players: Ornette Coleman and Jimmy Giuffre."   I would have liked to read a bit more on the topic.

[OliverM]

On 03/08/2022 at 2:19 PM, gvopedz said:

In France, the book appears to be at:

http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/cbs/xslt/CMD?DB=2.1&ACT=SRCHA&PRS=HOL&HLIB=861942101&IKT=8910&TRM=868808381

I read the book many years ago - I thought the book was good but I had the impression it could/should have been twice as long.

Thank you, I do have access to a University library and hadn't thought of trying to borrow it through this type of inter-city book exchange program.

[T.D.]

Just checked it out via inter-library loan (I belong to a good network). Should get it next week.  

[T.D.]

This is funny...I got a copy of Stopping Time via interlibrary loan (Upstate NY, "Four County Library System"), just finished the book.

There was one copy in the system, I expected it to come from a library in the Binghamton area (site of "the best" SUNY college), whence I've received some esoterica, e.g. Sites's Sun Ra's Chicago. To my surprise, it was from the Cherry Valley Library, a small but picturesque town I've visited a couple of times. Of course, reading the later chapters I then learned that Bley and Carol Goss lived in Cherry Valley from approx. 1980 on.

[Chuck Nessa]

I knew Paul a bit - he was a fascinating animal. Hope I didn't say this earlier.

 

[Rooster_Ties]

14 minutes ago, Chuck Nessa said:

I knew Paul a bit - he was a fascinating animal.

 

Please do expound!

[Chuck Nessa]

6 minutes ago, Rooster_Ties said:

Please do expound!

For example, one night in a bar I mentioned I gave a bonus to the group AIR for coming in under the studio budget I had estimated for the date. He said "Don't ever do that again, musicians will fuck you at every turn".

Most of the IAI records have short playing times.