Jimmy Smith sick

[Soul Stream]

Saw this on another thread which suggested a peek over at the AAJ board. It said he was in the hospital with a stomach problem. This sounds like very bad news. I saw a pretty drastic deterioration in his state of health in the last 3 years or so. At 75, and with his lifestyle, I always thought he was working on borrowed time to a degree.

That said, although his disposition is taciturn at best. He single-handedly created a whole genre, jazz organ. Sure, others got the ball rolling. But without Jimmy, organ would have died a not-so-slow and painful death. Make no doubt about it, he spawned an industry. Jazz clubs across America were virtually given another 10 years of life support from the soul-jazz organ genre he created in the late 50's-early 60's.

To me, nobody alive embodies genius more than Jimmy Smith. To create and master a genre and style is something the rest of us mortals could only dream of. Jimmy dreamed it and lived it. Hope his dream continues.

Long Live Jimmy Smith.

[randissimo]

Long live Jimmy Smith... He is still "The Man"...

Randissimo

[Soul Stream]

It's always amazed me that two of the biggest exponents of blues and jazz, B.B King and Jimmy Smith were still alive and playing consistently. Knowing the day would come when they wouldn't be around, I've seen Jimmy and B.B. every time I've been able.

The day either are gone, the world will feel like a different place to me. We really have been fortunate to have been alive at this point and time. To be able to be on the earth at the same time as many of our heros is a true blessing. And believe me, the heros of today and yesterday will be the heros a hundred and a thousand years from now. No one will every play organ "better" than Jimmy or squeeze the blues from a guitar like B.B.

Long live the kings.... Oh yeah...and Lou Donaldson...G.T. Hogan...Melvin Sparks...Lonnie Smith...Sonny Rollins.....

Edited March 17, 2003 by Soul Stream

[mikeb]

AMEN to that!!!!

[randissimo]

And believe me, the heros of today and yesterday will be the heros a hundred and a thousand years from now. No one will every play organ "better" than Jimmy or squeeze the blues from a guitar like B.B.

Long live the kings....

I'm with you my brother... B.B and Jimmy are institutions! I feel I have been fortunate and blessed to be able to sit just a few feet away from such greats as Art Blakey, Max roach, Philly Joe Jones, Elvin Jones, Tony williams, Jack DeJohnette, Idris Mohammed, and Al Foster, as well as Papa Joe Jones, Barret Deems, and Buddy Rich. These cats, and most of them are gone now, were the ones who blazed the trail for today's drummers...(You can probablt tell I'm a drummer

I feel fortunate in my lifetime to be a part of such a prolific era in "World Music History" .. What an incredible mix of cultures! I grew up as a teenager listening to Bird, Brubeck, Cannonball, Miles, Monk, Coltrane, Muddy waters, B.B and Albert King, Jimmy Smith, Stones, Weather Report, Capt. Beefheart, Frank Zappa, Chuck Berry, Bob Dylan, Marvin Gaye, Cream, Stravinsky, and DeBussy... And it's interesting to me that the Blues ties most of it together

with the exception of stravinsky and DeBussy....

[Jim Alfredson]

I hope Jimmy gets better. He's had a rough go. He's truly a genius and one of the most influencial keyboardist of our time. Is there anyone who plays Hammond that didn't steal something from him? Not likely.

I'm glad I got to see him at least once. Even if he was crotchety! God bless Jimmy Smith.

[CJ Shearn]

this is very sad news..... Jimmy Smith has been a staple of my listening since literally 2 years old, I've grown up intently listening to his style and playing, and even though guys like Joey D are the best at emulating his thing, no one will ever be able to duplicate the ferocity he brought to the big B. His innovation is one of the greatest gifts IMO, in jazz and in music. Hell, in my jazz in American music class we won't really discuss Jimmy at all, though my professor has told me if I bring in recordings he could try to fit something into the lecture. Our textbook "The concise guide to Jazz" by Mark Gridley doesn't even really talk about Jimmy , just a brief mention in the hard bop chapter that his music went mainstream b/c it was "less sophisticated", I suppose if yer talking the Verve period, but on BN, he played some mindblowing shit. Gridley minimizes the importance of many musicians, including narrowing Tony Williams' innovations to fusion

Edited March 18, 2003 by CJ Shearn

[Jim Alfredson]

Yeah, they didn't mention Jimmy in my "jazz" history class either. Clowns. He's only one of the most influential keyboardists (and obviously THE most influential organist) of the 20th century.

Less sophisticated my ass. Let's see any horn player sit down and play what Jimmy played back in the 50's on the organ. Bass lines, bass pedals, and all.

[Soul Stream]

Let one of those jazz classes sit down and transcribe that "Groovin' At Small's" session and see how "unsophisticated" that is. That's some of the most complex MUSIC ever played over jazz changes, period! Like Miles Davis told Eddie Henderson, "Quit trying to play trumpet, and try to play some music."

If people would get over the messenger (the B3) and get to the message (the notes jimmy's playing), maybe more people would realize what a heavy fucker that guy is.

[CJ Shearn]

I think the innovations of Jimmy Smith would be lost on a lot of my classmates honestly. There are a lot of people in the class to just fill requirements and pass, and who cannot tell the difference between swing or New Orleans jazz for example. My professor has said this as well that people have real difficulty understanding about jazz, we've learned about how to hear form, blues changes, rhythm changes etc. which has helped me tremendously. Even though pretty much I've breezed through everything without a sweat, I think a lot of people wouldn't understand why Jimmy is so great. I might bring in "The Champ" when we get to hard bop, and I think people might not be so sure what to make sure of that stop setting he uses on it, that last drawbar pulled out would probably remind them of carnival music. I think it also takes an appreciation of the sound of the organ and realizing that pre Jimmy the sounds were pretty much full of vibrato, and churchy, I dunno if people would hear that sound of his and most everyone after him as modern. And also, my professor said that when he teaches about hard bop a lot of people cannot distinguish it from bebop, and a lot of what Jimmy played on those early dates mixes the phrasing of Parker, pianists like Silver, Powell, with a whole lotta other hip things, they prolly wouldn't be able to grasp it. but w/o that negativity aside, if I get the chance I wanna talk about him when appropriate, or even write a paper on him for extra credit. It would be very interesting for me to learn about the social implications of his music, as we also talk about the social implications of jazz. Was Jimmy the first organist (probably also b/c of his association w/ BN that also afforded him the chance to play w/ the absolute best players on the NY scene) to get attention from the mainstream jazz public in addition to the Chitlin circuit? That is opposed to say a guy like Brother Jack, or Jimmy McGriff who in their heyday played and had popularity to a much more urban audience. In my view, it seems to me, later in their careers due to the organ revival, these guys were able to play large halls and venues outside of just the organ rooms and such that were huge back in the 60's. Even if I dun write a paper, that would be real cool to know

[randissimo]

Gridley minimizes the importance of many musicians, including narrowing Tony Williams' innovations to fusion

Gridley obviously isn't very deep and apparently didn't do his homework on the subject of Tony Williams.

Tony for me, was as important an innovator as Bird, Coltrane, Dolphy, Miles, Mingus, or Jimmy Smith..

Starting at a very young age, Tony listened to what Max Roach, Art Blakey, Roy Haynes, Philly Joe Jones, Elvin Jones, Kenny Clarke, and Jimmy Cobb were doing and evolved his own brilliant formula from these players. By the time he was in his early teens he was playin' his ass off and was playing with

Jackie McClean when he was maybe 15.

Personally I think the Miles Davis recordings with Tony are some of the most brilliant examples of creative drumming ever heard.

Yeah,

Question:

Who are the 3 most copied drummers these days among the younger players?

Answer:

I hear Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, and Jack Dejohnette... B)

[Soul Stream]

Randy, don't you think it's really impossible for a young drummer to take as his initial inspiration those three. It seems like you're building a house before you poured the foundation. I can't imagine a beginner listening to Tony Williams and walking away with an understanding of how to play the basics. Inspiration yes, but as initial role models? Who would you suggest an aspiring jazz drummer to listen to first?

[Jim Alfredson]

Was Jimmy the first organist (probably also b/c of his association w/ BN that also afforded him the chance to play w/ the absolute best players on the NY scene) to get attention from the mainstream jazz public in addition to the Chitlin circuit?

I think that he was, simply because he re-defined what the organ sounded like. Before him, people were trying to emulate big band horn sections and nobody kicked bass like he did. The solo sound he came up with and the idea of playing chords with that drawbar setting he used... all original.

Wasn't it Coltrane that said he used to fall asleep with Jimmy's sound in his head? You can hear some things that Coltrane stole from Jimmy in those early records. That stuff is wild!

[randissimo]

Randy, don't you think it's really impossible for a young drummer to take as his initial inspiration those three. It seems like you're building a house before you poured the foundation. I can't imagine a beginner listening to Tony Williams and walking away with an understanding of how to play the basics. Inspiration yes, but as initial role models? Who would you suggest an aspiring jazz drummer to listen to first?

I'm not talking about beginner drummers and I'm not saying these particular 3 are role models.. These are the 3 most obvious I hear in young drummers already touring and recording with the upcoming names in Jazz who have obviously listened and studied the masters..

When I hear recordings of some of the younger drummers of the last 10 years I'm hearing mainly these 3 influences.. For example, Jeff "Tain" Watts definately comes from Elvin's approach, Bill Stewart is obviously influenced by DeJohnette, and I hear Tony's influences in Jason Marsalis's sound as well as many other young drummers I've been hearing lately.

I think a serious young drummer should go back and listen to Kenny Clarke for comping behind solos, Max Roach for his lyrical approach, (especially his solos), Roy Haynes for his inventive sense of phrasing, and Philly Joe for

his deeply swinging grooves..

There are also so many others too numerous to list who have also made great contributions to the music.. Another great drummer was Ben Riley. I love the way he used to play behind Monk, another great innovator..

[randissimo]

...Almost forgot Art Blakey... Some of the most exciting moments for me were

sitting in front of Blakey all night, mesmerized by his groove and energy..

And the way blakey just sat on that shuffle on Jimmy smith's "The Sermon"

is an example all aspiring drummers need to hear!

[Jim Alfredson]

And the way blakey just sat on that shuffle on Jimmy smith's "The Sermon"

is an example all aspiring drummers need to hear!

You all see why I love this guy!

A nice picture up on our website, speaking of Art Blakey.

Who's that crazy white-boy at his side?

[Soul Stream]

Randy, I got to hang out quite a bit a while ago with Lou Donaldson and Lonnie Smith's longtime drummer Fukushi. He's a bad cat who came up under Philly Joe and that inspiration comes through clearly in his drumming. In my book, take all the Jack D, Elvin, Tony you want.... give me some Philly Joe, Art Blakey, Roy Haynes.... I miss hearing their influences in today's younger players. I just don't hear it for the most part. I'm afraid swinging timekeeping is seeing a slow death.

[Theo]

There's no disputing Jimmy Smith as the father of organ bop, and of those who followed many were unsung players I have met and listened to all over the country: guys like Doug Duke (don't laugh, B3-er), Cliff Duphaney, Joey West out in CA, even a full-figured sister in a blonde wig, knockin' down some decent jams in Batavia NY - oh, and Denny Gill from Buffalo. These are some of the people I thought were creative and innovative, if not in the same class with Jimmy.

But, my favorite organist I ever met and saw in person was Groove Holmes, probably the faster right hander ever.

Hey! I'm not a newbie anymore.

Edited March 18, 2003 by Theo