Is it too early for a baseball hot stove Thread???

[Johnny E]

What's the deal with Pavano? Did he get hurt last year or did he just have a crappy season, I can't remember? He may return to his old self, right? It's no bigger risk taking on his salary than signing Burnett at $12 mil a year, which is what some crazy teams are considering..

[Dan Gould]

What's the deal with Pavano?  Did he get hurt last year or did he just have a crappy season, I can't remember?  He may return to his old self, right?  It's no bigger risk taking on his salary than signing Burnett at $12 mil a year, which is what some crazy teams are considering..

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He stunk up the place, went on the DL, kept being reported as "close" and then ended up shutting it down with "shoulder tendinitis".

Pavano's "old self" was essentially the same as Burnett, except I think Pavano's lifetime mark was a game over .500, and Burnett's lifetime mark is a game under. The only appreciable difference in their careers is that Pavano managed to go 18-8 in his walk year, while Burnett lost his last six decisions on his way out of Florida.

[Dan Gould]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2229919

Interesting report that the Red Sox and Rangers are in discussions with the Marlins about trading for Josh Beckett. The Marlins are insisting on taking Mike Lowell off their hands, and that frankly doesn't bother me. Sure, he had an awful year, but he's only 31, and has been a consistent bat for many years before. For a dead-pull, fly-ball hitter, the Monster makes for an inviting target, and for a power-RBI guy, his strikeout numbers are pretty good. Between Youklis and Lowell, I think the Sox could cover their third base and first base needs just fine.

Beckett? You have to wonder about his outbursts on the mound, but he's got a couple things going better than Burnett or Pavano: He's 8 games over .500 on his career. Oh, and he pitched a complete game shutout to beat the Yanks in the World Series.

The Marlins want super-prospect Hanley Ramirez and one of the pitching prospects, John Lester or Anabel Sanchez. Lester is too good to give up in this deal though, and Ramirez may have to be considered as their fallback position if Renteria doesn't return to his all-star level. hmmm.....

OOPS: Now according to the Palm Beach Post, the Rangers are close to trading Blalock and a pitcher for Lowell and Beckett. Not sure I'd give up Blalock - that's a downgrade to go to Lowell.

[Brad]

As far as Cameron goes, he was a good, but not great player, although he had a decent season this year. Not sure which player Dan was referring to about carrying Manny's son jock. If it's Cameron, that's kind of a dumb statement. He's not a great player but a very serviceable one. Omar Minaya didn't answer the question about Nady being part of another deal. About Manny coming to the Mets, they are the only team that seems to want him and you don't think Omar doesn't know this? Same thing for Delgado. I wonder if he thinks he made a mistake. If he's on the Mets this year, they probably make the playoffs. I don't think you'll see Milledge going for him. I remember when the Sox got Pedro, they didn't give up much; Pavano and some junk.

Speaking of which, Carl had one good year and the Yank threw around the money. But I was never high on him. He'll probably stay just to show that he can do something.

Mets have cash for Wagner with or without Cameron. They'll probably use that $7 million for something else. Let's face it, there isn't much out there this year so I think teams are not going to overspending like in the past.

[Dan Gould]

As far as Cameron goes, he was a good, but not great player, although he had a decent season this year.  Not sure which player Dan was referring to about carrying Manny's son jock.  If it's Cameron, that's kind of a dumb statement.  He's not a great player but a very serviceable one.  Omar Minaya didn't answer the question about Nady being part of another deal.  About Manny coming to the Mets, they are the only team that seems to want him and you don't think Omar doesn't know this?  Same thing for Delgado.  I wonder if he thinks he made a mistake.  If he's on the Mets this year, they probably make the playoffs.  I don't think you'll see Milledge going for him.  I remember when the Sox got Pedro, they didn't give up much; Pavano and some junk. 

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Brad,

Yes, I was referring to Cameron, with a bit of hyperbole (obviously any major league player can carry the jock of a five year old) but not too much: You don't replace one of the greatest righthanded run producers in the history of the game with a guy who hits .249 and strikes out 140 times a year. To move Manny, the Sox have to get not only *major* established talent back but also *major* prospects, and that means Milledge.

As for the Pedro trade, the Sox sent Pavano and a player to be named, who ended up being Tony Armas, Jr., who made the major leagues to stay in 2000 and whose considerable potential was interrupted by a shoulder injury. If healthy, Armas is a very solid major league pitcher.

NOT junk.

[Dan Gould]

What's the deal with Pavano?  Did he get hurt last year or did he just have a crappy season, I can't remember?  He may return to his old self, right?  It's no bigger risk taking on his salary than signing Burnett at $12 mil a year, which is what some crazy teams are considering..

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By Nick Cafardo, Baseball Notes column, Boston Globe

If you're looking for a reason why Burnett is the most sought-after pitcher in the free agent market, a great comparison is National League Cy Young winner Chris Carpenter. After 135 starts in the big leagues with Toronto, Carpenter was 49-50. After 131 starts, Burnett is 49-50. Burnett has struck out 753 and walked 377, while Carpenter had 612 strikeouts and 331 walks at that point. Carpenter has blossomed in St. Louis, where he's 36-10 the past two seasons.

[Brad]

Yes, I agree with you and will forgive you that little bit of hyperbole. Maybe those two weren't junk but at the time -- and I still think so -- the Red Sox get a lot for not much. It always seems that when a big named player is moved, what comes back in return is not nearly the equal. In other words, we, the fans, can't believe that so and so team gave up that for a great player.

The Red Sox have a problem. Manny says he wants to go, so they've lost bargaining room there already, the Angels have apparently lost interest and the Mets appear to be the only game in town. The Sox have a problem as to what they can get back. I'd rather not gut my team to get him. I'd rather build slowly.

[Johnny E]

11.21.05

M's to sign Japanese catcher Johjima

By Bob Finnigan - Seattle Times staff reporter

Scoring the first big-name free-agent signing of the offseason, the Mariners will announce the signing of catcher Kenji Johjima, possibly as soon as today.

He kinda looks like a Japanese version of Bret Boone doesn't he?

Sources say that Johjima has agreed to terms with Seattle. His name is much bigger in Japan, where he has averaged .305 with 30 homers the past five years and won seven straight Gold Gloves.

The Mariners increased their offer late last week from two years plus a club option for a third year to more than $5 million a year for three years, a deal that also includes incentives.

Also, Johjima and his family were said to take a liking to the Northwest in their visit last weekend.

Seattle general manager Bill Bavasi declined to comment on the imminent announcement of the signing.

Instead, Bavasi said, "if we are lucky enough to sign Johjima, he would fit in playing on an everyday basis."

Seattle scouts have given Johjima high marks as a two-way player.

"Our people tell us he has high potential as an offensive player and a solid defensive catcher," Bavasi said.

Bavasi dismissed what most U.S. baseball men have seen as the main problem — the fact that Johjima doesn't speak English.

"If he's here, we wouldn't regard it any different than the situation with Latin guys," he said. "He'd have to pick up some English and even some Spanish. But we're talking about enough to get the next hitter out, not to split the atom."

With Johjima coming in as the front-line receiver, sources say Seattle is prepared to trade Yorvit Torrealba, the catcher who played most of the games in the second half of the 2005 season after coming here from San Francisco in a midseason trade.

Johjima's team in Japan, Fukuoka Soft-Bank Hawks, reportedly had offered him a one-year deal of $10 million to stay.

He will make his decision public on Tuesday in Japan. At Fukuoka's breakup meeting before the offseason, a tradition for Japanese teams, Johjima will tell Hawks' manager Sadahura Oh that he will play in this country.

[jazzypaul]

The Red Sox have a problem.  Manny says he wants to go, so they've lost bargaining room there already, the Angels have apparently lost interest and the Mets appear to be the only game in town.  The Sox have a problem as to what they can get back.  I'd rather not gut my team to get him.  I'd rather build slowly.

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Man, I wish the guys in the White Sox front office would quit sitting on their wallets and at least make an offer. I mean hell, to see Manny in a pair of clean sox would just be heaven.

This idea of speed, defense and hot pitching is great until a pitcher gets hurt. And then what? We go to Marte or some other guy who sits on the bench most of the time for a reason?

Sheesh.

This Juan Pierre guy looks interesting though. Hits for average and runs like Pods? Too bad the Marlins want Rowand in return.

[Brad]

Juan Pierre is a nice player. His average fell by about 50 points this year but his runs, RBIs, doubles and triples didn't fall off that much, although his stolen bases didn't fall off that much.

[PHILLYQ]

The Red Sox have a problem.  Manny says he wants to go, so they've lost bargaining room there already, the Angels have apparently lost interest and the Mets appear to be the only game in town.  The Sox have a problem as to what they can get back.  I'd rather not gut my team to get him.  I'd rather build slowly.

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Man, I wish the guys in the White Sox front office would quit sitting on their wallets and at least make an offer. I mean hell, to see Manny in a pair of clean sox would just be heaven.

This idea of speed, defense and hot pitching is great until a pitcher gets hurt. And then what? We go to Marte or some other guy who sits on the bench most of the time for a reason?

Sheesh.

This Juan Pierre guy looks interesting though. Hits for average and runs like Pods? Too bad the Marlins want Rowand in return.

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Juan Pierre has great speed but hardly walks and thus has a rather low OBP for a leadoff guy. He also has no arm, so the Chisox are better off not making a deal to obtain Juan Pierre.

[Dan Gould]

Now it looks like the Red Sox have moved ahead of the Rangers in the Josh Beckett sweepstakes, at least according to Jayson Stark of ESPN. I think it makes sense to give up what they want for Beckett, even if it includes super prospect Jon Lester, because he's a better pitcher than Burnett and will cost much less, at least for two more years, than Burnett is demanding. And he is an established major leaguer. There are no ironclad guarantees that anyone makes the jump from the minors to the majors, even as good as Lester has shown.

And as bad as Mike Lowell was last year, I think his stroke is tailor-made for Fenway, and at 31, its hard not to believe that the previous five years (averaging 25 homers and 95 RBI) are a better predictor than last season's anemic performance. If Lowell were 35, I'd say stay away from him, but I've got no problem with Lowell/Youklis handling third and first.

[Noj]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

Peter Gammons reporting it as a done deal, announced as final in the next few days: Beckett and Lowell for Ramirez, Sanchez and an unidentified minor leaguer to be named.

[Johnny E]

...at 31, its hard not to believe that the previous five years (averaging 25 homers and 95 RBI) are a better predictor than last season's anemic performance. 

[Dan Gould]

...at 31, its hard not to believe that the previous five years (averaging 25 homers and 95 RBI) are a better predictor than last season's anemic performance. 

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Have you looked at Mike Lowell? He doesn't exactly look like Juan Gone.

[Dan Gould]

Originally Posted by Jon Abbey

Peter Gammons reporting it as a done deal, announced as final in the next few days: Beckett and Lowell for Ramirez, Sanchez and an unidentified minor leaguer to be named.

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Are you serious? Yippee, giving up Sanchez instead of Lester ...

[Noj]

Apparently it's not Manny Ramirez, but a young short stop prospect.

[Johnny E]

...at 31, its hard not to believe that the previous five years (averaging 25 homers and 95 RBI) are a better predictor than last season's anemic performance. 

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Have you looked at Mike Lowell? He doesn't exactly look like Juan Gone.

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Neither does Ryan Franklin

[Dan Gould]

Apparently it's not Manny Ramirez, but a young short stop prospect.

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I had to remind myself that its Hanley Ramirez, not Manny. But it wouldn't make sense otherwise. The Marlins are dumping salary by trading for Manny?

God I hope this goes through ... Beckett is an ace pitcher and an acquisition like this would give Steinbrenner conniptions.

[Quincy]

Beckett's got great stuff but he sure has problems with blisters on his fingers. However, the blisters have helped keep him from pitching too many innings as a youngster, all the better for his shoulder & arm long term. As long as some progress is made regarding the blister problems he would be a terrific pick up. He's already proven he can pitch in Yankee Stadium in a high pressure situation.

[Dan Gould]

Well, Lowe had blister problems too and they had some special goop they used. Seemed to work, most of the time.

The thing is, barring some shocking trade, Beckett is much, much better than any free agent pitcher, especially his ex-teammate who's about to cash in big time, and the Sox didn't give up their best pitching prospect to get him.

[Dave James]

Well this will put Steinbrenner into tilt mode. Problem is the Yanks have nothing in their farm system for trading purposes. Their only route is through free agency and there just isn't much out there this year. I wonder if Lowell sticks around. Everything I've heard says that they've pegged Ukelele, or whatever his name is, as their guy on the corner. If Shilling comes back healthy next year and you add a healthy Beckett, that's not a good thing. Of course, they still have some bullpen issues, but if they do move Man Ram they could solve those pretty quickly.

All in all about an 8 on the ouch-meter.

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

Youklis, Dave, the man's name is Youklis.

Considering that Lowell won a gold glove last year and was a very solid defender for many years before finally winning one, he should definitely play third. Youklis has been working out at first base since the beginning of last year, and I'd have no problem with Lowell at third and Youk at first.

However, there are rumors and innuendos that Lowell will be flipped, possibly to Minnesota, as a way of getting some bullpen help. Personally, at 31, I think there's no reason why Lowell doesn't hit quite well at Fenway. He'll be overpaid anyway, but I have no problem with him sticking.

Beckett ... well, its real simple: Barring a completely wild and crazy trade, the Sox are getting the best pitcher who will change teams this year. Period.

Now, if the Mets can land Delgado, everything will be peachy, because at that point, Manny doesn't have any suitors and he'll have to stay. (Plus, the Sox fan forums are rife with speculation that Beckett will make Manny want to stay anyway, as he'll see that the team is going to continue to be very competitive.)

[Chalupa]

I can't see Minny taking on Lowell's contract.

[Matthew]

I see where Seattle has signed Kenji Johjima, a catcher from Japan, to the club. Well, the Mariner's played seven catchers last year, hopefully this will work out for them; however, Johjima is coming off a broken leg, which, for a catcher, is not good news. Bavasi needs to spend some cash on pitching or it's going to be another long year for Seattle.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Matthew