Is it too early for a baseball hot stove Thread???

[Dan Gould]

I'll be the first to say I'm not thrilled with Renteria being unloaded, even if the prospect they got is one of the best in baseball ... but in the wake of Miguel Tejada announcing to the AP that he wants out of Baltimore makes me start praying that the Sox actually do unload Manny, even straight up, for Tejada. If there's anyone that can come close to filling Manny's shoes its a guy who had 150 RBIs in 2004. The money owed is similar, and while an inter-division trade is always tough to do, Manny on the O's looks to be a lot like Sosa in his prime on the Cubs: great slugger, terrible team. And since the trade partners like the Angels and Mets aren't cooperating on Manny, this would keep us from having to find out just how unhappy and disruptive Manny may be if he's still in Boston in April. And one more thing: Tejada and Ortiz are buddies, and with the team being overhauled, having Tejada around could help keep Big Papi on board when his contract is up.

Whoever is in charge on Yawkey Way, MAKE THE TRADE!!

[Dave James]

Oh course being a Yankee fan, the last thing I want to see is Tejada in red sox. Two things mitigate against this. First, as Dan points out, interdivisional trades are rara avis. Second, and probably more significantly, Manny has shown zero interest in playing on the East Coast. Seems with him it's California or bust.

On the Renteria front, I'm hearing the kid they got from Atlanta may be flipped for Julio Lugo.

Also, that Johnny Damon becoming a Yankee is becoming less and less far fetched every day.

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

Oh course being a Yankee fan, the last thing I want to see is Tejada in red sox. Two things mitigate against this. First, as Dan points out, interdivisional trades are rara avis. Second, and probably more significantly, Manny has shown zero interest in playing on the East Coast. Seems with him it's California or bust.

On the Renteria front, I'm hearing the kid they got from Atlanta may be flipped for Julio Lugo.

Also, that Johnny Damon becoming a Yankee is becoming less and less far fetched every day.

Up over and out.

Good point about where Manny wants to be, I'd forgotten about his 10/5 rights. But it certainly can't hurt to set up a trade and let him quash it; if he really wants out of Boston but won't accept a trade, how can he be so upset to still be there? Either way its a win-win, if the trade is for Tejada. Anything else that's out there, its a salary dump and a terrible move.

Another factor working against a trade is the fact that Luchino and the ownership look at Manny's contract as an albatross and the trade is supposed to provide more payroll flexibility. Tejada is owed about 10 million less than Manny, over six years instead of three. But its still a really high salary to take on in place of a ridiculously high salary. To me its a no-brainer but the bean counters might say otherwise.

As to the prospect from Atlanta, there is NO truth whatsoever to the idea of him being flipped anywhere. They think he's a star in the making, ready to play this coming year. Signing Marlin castoff Alex Gonzales is the #1 option if nothing happens with Tejada but the interest in Lugo is nonexistent, according to all Boston sources. Nno way they trade the kid, they see him as a cornerstone player of the future, and the future may be now. In fact, the kid could even be Manny's replacement in left, they're so high on his bat even if he didn't impress when the Braves tried to move him to the outfield. He might start in left and if it turns out that Lowell's downturn is a trend and not an abberation, he returns to third base where he was top defensive player three out of four seasons in the minors. See? That's why we're not gonna move him.

[Dave James]

Who in their right mind would want to play in Baltimore?

Up over and out.

[Johnny E]

Who in their right mind would want to play in Baltimore?

Up over and out.

Depends on what you're playin'

[Dan Gould]

Who in their right mind would want to play in Baltimore?

Up over and out.

How 'bout someone who doesn't want to be bothered by fans?

Its the perfect fit for Manny. As Picard would say, "Make it so."

[Dave James]

Well, Dan, I guess that makes some sense. If there's a place in either league next season where a player wouldn't be botherd by fans, it's gonna be Baltimore. Still, even though Manny marches to a drummer none of us have ever heard, even he wants to win. The O's aren't going anywhere for probably as long as Manny has left in the show. 10/5 will absolutely keep this from happening.

Up over and out.

[Dave James]

New York Post: "While GM Brian Cashman and agent Arn Tellem refused to confirm or deny an offer has been made by the Yankees to Garciaparra, several industry sources indicated an offer has been made... Randy Hendricks, the agent for Roger Clemens, shot down a rumor that the Yankees have made an offer to Clemens."

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Newsday: "In another sign of his increased power, Yankees general manager Brian Cashman flew to Tampa last night so he could be present for organizational meetings... The Yankees continue to negotiate with free-agent centerfielder Johnny Damon and relievers Octavio Dotel, Rudy Seanez, Julian Tavarez and Rick White."

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After all the Red Sox have done so far, the Yanks absolutely have to mount some kind of big splash counter attack. Signing both Garciaparra and Damon would go a long ways towards that end. Word also is the Sox have begun to talk to the Mariners about Jeremy Reed as a contingency plan for the potential loss of Damon. Matt Clement's name has surfaced in those discussions.

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

Well, Garciappara probably spells the end of Bernie Williams' tenure as Bernie would have to rethink how much playing time he'd get if Nomar is a fourth outfielder and utility infielder. He would certainly give more bang for the buck than Bernie will.

As for Damon, I saw that quote and do not believe it is accurate. At least, not accurate in the usual meaning of "negotiate". There's no indication anywhere else that actual offers have been made to Damon. What the Yanks keep telling Boras is, you get off the 7 year demand and get down to 3-4 years, we'll definitely talk. But no one else has said that the yanks have made an offer, which is a prerequisite for "negotiations" to actually occur.

The problem is, the Sox want Damon at the same number of years, which means that eventually, Steinbrenner could, at minimum, drive up Damon's price.

[Matthew]

I just do get the Yankee's interest in Damon, he's never stuck me as someone who could handle center at Yankee Stadium. And then to ask for seven years . Normar is even more of a risk, he's never been the same player since 2003. Some of the deals that are being mentioned make no sense to me, at all. Manny to the O's though, does make sense, he'd go .350 - 50 -150 easily in Camdon.

[Dan Gould]

The only problem with Damon in centerfield is his weak throwing arm. There's no doubt he has the speed and range to cover the expanse. Add to that his talent as a leadoff hitter/table setter (who'll show even more power than he has previously at the Stadium) and the fact that Jeter bats second, its a no-brainer for the Yankees to be interested, the only problem is Boras' insane demand for 7 years. Once they get off of that delusion, I expect that the Yanks and Sox will have a nice bidding war for Damon. Hopefully his enjoyment of Boston and an aversion to fascist rules about personal grooming will keep him out of Steinbrenner's clutches.

As for Nomar, the risk will be minimal because after two lost seasons he won't get that much of a base salary. His upside, if he is healthy, is enormous and whoever gets him will have made a smart pickup, imo.

[Dave James]

Here's an interesting twist. The Yanks are looking at Nomar to play first base.

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

Here's an interesting twist. The Yanks are looking at Nomar to play first base.

Up over and out.

The interesting thing is what this does to Giambino. His splits between DH and 1st base are really eye-popping:

From the New York Post:

In the past three years, Giambi is a .274 hitter with 56 homers and 157 RBIs at first compared to a .217 hitter with 29 homers and 77 RBIs as the DH with 174 more at-bats as a first baseman.

In other words, those splits are for 695 at bats at first base, 521 at bats as DH. I'd say that's a statistically significant difference.

Funny, cuz its not like he's an asset in the field or anything.

[PHILLYQ]

Here's an interesting twist. The Yanks are looking at Nomar to play first base.

Up over and out.

The interesting thing is what this does to Giambino. His splits between DH and 1st base are really eye-popping:

From the New York Post:

In the past three years, Giambi is a .274 hitter with 56 homers and 157 RBIs at first compared to a .217 hitter with 29 homers and 77 RBIs as the DH with 174 more at-bats as a first baseman.

In other words, those splits are for 695 at bats at first base, 521 at bats as DH. I'd say that's a statistically significant difference.

Funny, cuz its not like he's an asset in the field or anything.

Giambi is still a better first baseman than Nomar right now.

Some players do hit better when they also play the field, and Giambi is one of those people.

[Dan Gould]

Here's an interesting twist. The Yanks are looking at Nomar to play first base.

Up over and out.

The interesting thing is what this does to Giambino. His splits between DH and 1st base are really eye-popping:

From the New York Post:

In the past three years, Giambi is a .274 hitter with 56 homers and 157 RBIs at first compared to a .217 hitter with 29 homers and 77 RBIs as the DH with 174 more at-bats as a first baseman.

In other words, those splits are for 695 at bats at first base, 521 at bats as DH. I'd say that's a statistically significant difference.

Funny, cuz its not like he's an asset in the field or anything.

Giambi is still a better first baseman than Nomar right now.

Some players do hit better when they also play the field, and Giambi is one of those people.

So ... if Nomar is signed to play first base, Giambi is a worse hitter. This is a smart move?

Or is Nomar, with no experience at first base, supposed to be the late inning defensive substitution?

[Dave James]

I'm just fascinated by the possibility that three of the best shortstops of the last 20 or so years may wind up playing in the same infield. Torre thinks Nomar can really help the team. I tend to trust his judgement.

With regard to Giambi, he's been platooned over the last couple of years, so it's not like he'd have to get used to something brand new. I'm not surprised at all that his offensive numbers are better when he's playing. I would be willing to bet that almost anyone in his situation would show the same or similar results. It's just a whole lot easier to stay in the game mentally when you're playing all nine innings. I mean DH'ing isn't a whole lot different than pinch hitting 3-4 times a game. Coming off the bench cold is never an easy proposition, especially at the big league level.

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

Then I guess that makes what David Ortiz has accomplished all the more impressive.

[Matthew]

I don't think Nomar can stay healthy for a whole season. It seems in baseball once the body starts to breakdown (maybe it was abuse of steriods that caused it), nothing can help it -- exhibit A: Ken Griffey. Nomars days as a top level, everyday player, are over, I'm afraid.

[Dan Gould]

A wrist damaged by a thrown ball; an achilles tendon damaged by a batted ball, a torn groin suffered on a wet field.

These are steroid-related?

[Matthew]

A wrist damaged by a thrown ball; an achilles tendon damaged by a batted ball, a torn groin suffered on a wet field.

These are steroid-related?

If I remember correctly, when Nomar went down with the torn groin, ESPN had a huge article more than hinting that steriods was a factor. Which, I also thought strange given the nature of the injuries, but it was someone who seemed to know (FWTW). Maybe I'll see if I can dig the article up.

Edit Here's the article I had in mind.

Edit on my edit: No it's not.

Edited December 14, 2005 by Matthew

[Dave James]

Dan,

Yes, with regard to Ortiz, absolutely. As you know, I thought he should be the AL MVP. Still do.

Up over and out.

[Quincy]

I don't think Nomar can stay healthy for a whole season. It seems in baseball once the body starts to breakdown (maybe it was abuse of steriods that caused it), nothing can help it -- exhibit A: Ken Griffey. Nomars days as a top level, everyday player, are over, I'm afraid.

An exception to that rule would by Paul Molitor who finally at the age of 34 stayed free of injuries the rest of the way (well, maybe a minor one years later.) So that's Nomar's hope. But I too am suspicious of his ability to be a top guy free of injuries. Hope I'm wrong about that.

I too recall ESPN associating Nomar with 'roids. Nowadays anytime a ligament snaps the theory is that the muscle was too built up for the ligament to handle it. So there you go - GUILTY! without a wee wee test. Though I can't remember the season in question, it was also noted how he showed up at spring training one year much more muscular. We couch potatoes all know that's a crime.

[PHILLYQ]

The latest rumor has the Yankees signing Nomar to play first and trading for Kaz Matsui to play second. Then the Yankees can have an all-shortstop infield(If you believe that one I have a bridge to sell to you)!

[chris olivarez]

The LA Dodger website reports that Bill Mueller has been signed to a two year deal.

[Dan Gould]

I may be wrong, but with Nomar supposedly set to make a decision, I have a strong feeling that he's gonna be a Yankee. It looks like the other teams that are interested want him for the outfield, while the Yanks have him as a first baseman/back-up to Jeter & A-Rod. Why go somewhere you have to learn an entirely new position when he can stay in the infield with the Yanks?

Damn. Now I'll actually have to root for him to get injured.

Just kidding. Sort of.