Is it too early for a baseball hot stove Thread???

[Johnny E]

A-Rod would be a sub-par center fielder. He's not fast enough. I think they'd be better off with Bernie there for another year.

[Dan Gould]

A-Rod would be a sub-par center fielder. He's not fast enough. I think they'd be better off with Bernie there for another year.

If you also hate the Yanks, then by all means we do hope that Bernie comes back.

[Brad]

Those moves would be dumb. If you're going to make a move, switch Jeter and A Rod. A Rod is the better shortstop.

[BERIGAN]

Well, those wanting to see the Braves not win another division are most likely to get their wish this year. While the Mets sign Delgado and Wagner, the Braves sign no one and will lose 2 players. Furcal is probably going to sign with the cubs(Not as big a loss as some would think, he still plays like a mistake ridden rookie and Wilson Betemit hit .305) and Kyle Farnsworth is going to sign with the Yankees as the set-up guy. Yes, he blew it in the playoffs, but he was the only guy who was able to close last year, and had an overall E.R.A. of 2.19. He would rather be the set up guy for the Yankees, than close for the Braves, that speaks volumes.

But hey, Chipper Jones restructured his contract, to give the poor, poor Braves 5 million more to play with each year. Many fans still hate him for making good money, and I bet the Braves pocket about 4.5 mil the next 3

Edited December 1, 2005 by BERIGAN

[Dan Gould]

Yanks wave bye-bye to Flash:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2244420

Now, if the Rangers could come up with an offer to keep Farnsworth out of the Bronx, the Yanks would truly be up the proverbial creek.

Actually, the Yanks are still up the creek, cuz they needed to add reliable arms, not just replace one. And Farnsworth was a head case with the Cubs, who knows if he'll ever pitch to his potential consistently?

[Dave James]

Calling all Red Sox and Yankee fans. I know you've been wondering how to treat yourself during the upcoming holiday season. How, you ask, can I scratch that itch that involves both baseball and my favorite team all at the same time. Well look no further:

Available as we speak from Amazon.com. Just like your ballpark red hots, get 'em while they last.

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

Well the Yanks have signed Farnsworth:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2245182

But at best, they've replaced Flash when they need to do a lot more, and in all likelihood, its a significant drop-off.

[Dave James]

Further word is the Yanks are hot on the trail of Juan Pierre. That would give them a legitimate center fielder and a natural lead off hitter, allowing them to move Jeter to the 2 or 3 hole where he can be more productive.

My concern at this point is what the Red Sox will get for ManRam. I'm hoping it winds up being more of a farm stocking kind of deal for them, given that they had to dig pretty deep to bring in Beckett.

Up over and out.

[Dan Gould]

Further word is the Yanks are hot on the trail of Juan Pierre. That would give them a legitimate center fielder and a natural lead off hitter, allowing them to move Jeter to the 2 or 3 hole where he can be more productive.

My concern at this point is what the Red Sox will get for ManRam. I'm hoping it winds up being more of a farm stocking kind of deal for them, given that they had to dig pretty deep to bring in Beckett.

Up over and out.

They didn't dig deep for Beckett. Ramirez was their top position prospect but he didn't have a spot with the club once they signed Renteria and failed to move Ramirez to a position like centerfield. Anabel Sanchez is at best the number 4 pitcher in the system, behind Jon Lester, Papelbon, and Hansen. The fact that they got Beckett, Lowell and Mota and kept the top three pitching prospects was an extraordinary deal.

The fact is, the Sox may accept a couple of prospects but to part with Manny and not leave a gargantuan whole in the lineup, they have to insist on established major league talent.

What I'd love to see happen is for Minaya to make the best deal he can, and then we'll know the truth about how much, and for what reasons, Manny wants out. Cuz Manny in New York means at least as much hassle and lack of privacy as he bitches about in Boston. My guess is Manny invokes his 10/5 rights and kills the deal.

[Johnny E]

Furcal to the Dodgers, LaDuca to the Mets...and were only a few hours into the winter meetings.

[PHILLYQ]

Furcal to the Dodgers, LaDuca to the Mets...and were only a few hours into the winter meetings.

The Furcal deal strikes me as a gross overpayment. Furcal does not have a high OBP and no power , so offensively he's not exceptional. I can't see paying him $13Mil a year for production that is NOT exceptional.

The Mets felt they were getting played by the agents for Molina & Hernandez, so they struck quickly and made the LoDuca deal. I like Omar Minaya's approach, he's aggressive and not that willing to be hornswaggled by a shifty agent. I think the Mets may be greatly improved over last year.

[Johnny E]

The Mets felt they were getting played by the agents for Molina & Hernandez, so they struck quickly and made the LoDuca deal. I like Omar Minaya's approach, he's aggressive and not that willing to be hornswaggled by a shifty agent. I think the Mets may be greatly improved over last year.

It doesn't hurt to have money falling out your ass either.

[Dave James]

Lots of really interesting rumors are starting to circulate.

Latest on ManRam. Three way deal. Manny to the Angels, Troy Glaus to the Red Sox and prospects to the D-Backs from the Angels. In this scenario, Glaus would be pencilled in at first base.

Yanks are not out of the Damon sweepstakes. Marlins want Robinson Cano for Juan Pierre, and that's not going to happen. Latest name to surface in the Bronx is Nomar Garcioparra. Somehow as a piece of a center field solution. Wouldn't that be something...Jeter, A-Road and Nomar on the same team.

Yanks interested in the Phillie's Jason Michaels but the price of Chen Ming Wang is too high.

Marlins have let it be known that everyone on their roster including Cabrera and Willis are available for he right price.

Abreu for Mark Prior?

David Wells to the Dodgers. All but a done deal.

Kevin Millwood to the Mariners?

Bill Mueller to either the Pirates or the Dodgers.

Sean Casey to the Red Sox for Bronson Arroyo and Kevin Ukelele?

Up over and out.

[Matthew]

Kevin Millwood to the Mariners?

That would be sweet, it would also take some of the heat off Felix Hernandez and let him develop without the pressure of being the main man at 20. But WTH are the Dodgers thinking signing Wells? The guy can breakdown any moment, especially when he's carrying the keg.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Matthew

[sheldonm]

BlueJays signed AJ Burnett for a bunch of money.....too much!!!

[BERIGAN]

Furcal to the Dodgers, LaDuca to the Mets...and were only a few hours into the winter meetings.

The Furcal deal strikes me as a gross overpayment. Furcal does not have a high OBP and no power , so offensively he's not exceptional. I can't see paying him $13Mil a year for production that is NOT exceptional.

...

Well, I agree that he is not as big a loss as some think(but subtracking while other teams add, doesn't make braves fans feel like ownership wants win it all to say the least) BUT....Jason Stark pointed out that he he had the second most hits in the NL after July 16th (I think, I can't find the story I read a few days ago) and the Dodgers really need a table setter. OBP isn't great, but he did score 100 runs last year...

[Brad]

The Jays grossly overpayed for him. They've spent a load of cash ... on pitchers!

[BERIGAN]

Dan, do you think the pressure was just to much for Edgar? Or we getting a 40 year old!

Marte on block in three-way trade talk

By DAVID O'BRIEN

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 12/07/05

Dallas — The Braves are working on a major three-team trade that would bring Boston shortstop Edgar Renteria to Atlanta, two persons familiar with negotiations said Tuesday.

The Braves would send a top prospect, likely third baseman Andy Marte, to Tampa Bay, and the Devil Rays would send shortstop Julio Lugo to the Red Sox in the deal, which was characterized as "percolating" late Tuesday by a person familiar with the talks.

WINSLOW TOWNSON/AP

(ENLARGE)

Marcus Giles could be moved to the leadoff slot if the Braves get Boston's Edgar Renteria, who has little experience at leadoff.

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The deal is being held up by the Braves' request for the Red Sox to pay part of the money Renteria is owed on the remaining three years of his contract, a person familiar with negotiations said.

The Braves also discussed a three-team deal with Colorado and Tampa Bay that would bring Lugo to Atlanta and send catcher Johnny Estrada to the Rockies, but those negotiations cooled Tuesday as the other trade talks began heating up.

The Braves and Devil Rays recently discussed a multi-player trade that involved Lugo and Tampa Bay closer Danys Baez, but the Braves were unwilling to part with catcher Brian McCann along with Marte, a person familiar with those negotiations said.

While the Braves continue their search for a closer from the thinning free-agent ranks and the scant few names general manager John Schuerholz said have been "bandied about" as trade possibilities, the shortstop vacancy took precedent Tuesday.

Schuerholz declined comment on specific players involved in trade talks, but acknowledged progress in the roster-construction effort since the winter meetings began Monday.

"We've had some very good discussions, and some good secondary discussions," Schuerholz said. "I've told our guys, something good will come out of these meetings."

Renteria, 30, would certainly qualify. He's a four-time All-Star who has three seasons left on a four-year, $40 million contract he signed with the Red Sox last winter.

A World Series hero with the Marlins in 1997, Renteria owns a .288 career average, with 91 home runs, 635 RBIs and a .345 on-base percentage in 10 seasons with Florida, St. Louis and Boston. He's averaged 11 homers, 35 doubles and 74 RBIs over the past seven seasons.

He's coming off a perplexing season in which he batted .276 with a career-high 30 errors, career-low nine stolen bases and only eight homers, his fewest since 1998.

He won Gold Gloves in 2002 and '03 for St. Louis, where he spent six seasons and picked up three Silver Slugger awards as the top-hitting shortstop in the National League.

The Colombian star would replace shortstop Rafael Furcal, who left the Braves for a three-year, $39 million free-agent contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers on Saturday.

Renteria will make $9 million less over the next three years than Furcal, 28, who has a .284 average with 57 homers, 292 RBIs and a .348 OBP in six seasons.

Furcal never won a Gold Glove or Silver Slugger award, but he was a dynamic presence at the top of the Braves order with his speed and power.

Renteria has batted second for most of his career and only has 247 at-bats in the leadoff position, most of those in 1998 for the Marlins after they gutted their World Series team.

But if the Braves get him, they could try second baseman Marcus Giles at the leadoff spot. Manager Bobby Cox said that was a possibility, although the big-swinging Giles also has spent most of his career hitting second and has only 246 at-bats in the leadoff spot.

"I've had leadoff hitters who went to bat 600 times and walked 12," said Cox, who said the Braves could experiment with several options.

Giles actually has a higher career average (.292) and OBP (.366) than Furcal.

Marte is rated as the top prospect in the Braves organization, and trading the 22-year-old slugger would have been unthinkable a year ago. With Chipper Jones signed on for at least three more seasons under his restructured contract, however, one of them would have to change positions to create a spot for Marte with the major league team.

Marte hit .275 with 20 homers and 75 RBIs at Class AAA Richmond last season and struggled in his brief time in the majors, batting .140 with no homers in 57 at-bats.

http://www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/b...7bravesmtg.html

[Matthew]

Dan, do you think the pressure was just to much for Edgar? Or we getting a 40 year old!

Marte on block in three-way trade talk

By DAVID O'BRIEN

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 12/07/05

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Bertinelli Divorcing Rocker Eddie Van Halen

Now, that's "Hot Stove League" talk at it's best.

[jazzypaul]

Dan, do you think the pressure was just to much for Edgar? Or we getting a 40 year old!

Marte on block in three-way trade talk

By DAVID O'BRIEN

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 12/07/05

MOST POPULAR STORIES

Bertinelli Divorcing Rocker Eddie Van Halen

Now, that's "Hot Stove League" talk at it's best.

I've got it bad, I've got it bad, I've got it bad, I'm Hot Stove for Teacher?

[BERIGAN]

Well, I think Val waited too late to trade Eddie on a newer model....err, I mean...the Braves have made the kind of move that a team ready to make the next step. Trade Johnny Estrada to the Diamondbacks for 2 relief pitchers with E.R.A's over 5! So, in case you forgot, The brilliant John Schuerholz traded a 20 game winner (Kevin Millwood) for a catcher that has now been traded for Oscar Villarreal and Lance Cormier. Look out Paul!!!! We are gunnin' for ya!!!

Edited December 7, 2005 by BERIGAN

[Tjazz]

Furcal to the Dodgers, LaDuca to the Mets...and were only a few hours into the winter meetings.

The Furcal deal strikes me as a gross overpayment. Furcal does not have a high OBP and no power , so offensively he's not exceptional. I can't see paying him $13Mil a year for production that is NOT exceptional.

The Mets felt they were getting played by the agents for Molina & Hernandez, so they struck quickly and made the LoDuca deal. I like Omar Minaya's approach, he's aggressive and not that willing to be hornswaggled by a shifty agent. I think the Mets may be greatly improved over last year.

Wow, Furcal gets $13 million a year. Higher than Jeff Kent, who's the Dodger's best hitter. (around $8.5 m)

Didn't JD Drew get about $55 for 5 years? That makes Furcal, still the highest paid hitter.

Glad it's not my money. Seems like a waste of money, for a team that won't win any playoff games.

The Marlins are unloading their team. Who's left??

Is Mike Piazza still a Met? Or is LoDuca trade bait?

[PHILLYQ]

Is Mike Piazza still a Met? Or is LoDuca trade bait?

[Dan Gould]

Brutal commentary about Grady Little's managerial skills. Read it and weep, Dodger fans.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5148452

Grady's brain cramps: Not just Pedro

Kevin Hench / FOXSports.com

Talk about a gag gift.

Merry Christmas, Dodgers fans. That's not a lump of coal in your stocking, it's your new manager, Grady Little.

Trust me, you'll wish you got the lump of coal.

This is great news for Red Sox fans, of course. We get to join in the raucous laughter, eye-rolling and second-guessing, only without Grady Little killing our team in the process.

Plus, as an added bonus, I get to dust off phrases like "empty-faced," "slack-jawed" and "dull-eyed."

Little is the only manager I've ever seen for whom the glacial pace of baseball moved too fast. Every situation caught him by surprise. Any time he was expected to counter an opposing manager's move, it was like the shot clock was about to expire and he was heaving one up from 35 feet.

Grady has his apologists, naturally, those who think he got railroaded for one bad move. They point to his stellar minor league managerial record and his 188 wins in two seasons as Red Sox skipper.

I totally agree that Grady should not be judged solely on what happened on the night of October 16, 2003. He should be judged also on all the mindless moves he made over the course of two seasons in Boston that contributed a. to a team with the 2-3 finishers in the Cy Young balloting missing the playoffs in 2002 and b. to a team with a solid starting staff and a record-setting lineup finishing six games behind the Yankees in 2003.

Yes, lets give Grady a pass — for the moment — for freezing when it mattered most. Let's instead discuss all the times he pinch ran for David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez, only to have that guy's spot come up two innings later with the winning run in scoring position and some utility guy at the plate. Let's discuss all the times he failed to anticipate the other manager's counter-move. Time and time again Grady would abandon a more-favorable matchup to trigger a sequence that would result in a much less desirable pairing of pitcher and hitter. It was like he didn't have access to the other guy's roster, never mind the stats of the opposition. Or perhaps he'd forget that the other manager was allowed to make a move. It was so often bewildering. And sometimes downright scary. Like watching a foreign motorist misread a traffic signal and venture out into a busy intersection. The resulting car crash in that tragic 8th inning was, I believe, inevitable.

Let's go back to those 2003 playoffs, not the calamitous ALCS but the opening game of the Red Sox' first round series against the A's. It's the top of the 8th and the Sox are leading 4-3 and have runners on second and third with one out. Two critical insurance runs are sitting in scoring position and Trot Nixon — who finished fifth in the league in slugging percentage in 2003 — is due up against lefty Ricardo Rincon.

Now Nixon has always struggled against lefties so the inclination to lift him for a pinch hitter is not without merit. But a manager cannot make his decisions in a vacuum, even if that is all that exists between his ears. Little removed Nixon from the game in favor of David McCarty, who had hit .400 (10-for-25) against lefties in 2003. Presumably Oakland manager Ken Macha had access to this information and predictably replaced Rincon with right-handed submariner Chad Bradford. Surprise!

Righties hit just .190 off Bradford in '03 and struck out once every 3.7 at bats. Uh-oh. Runners on second and third, one out, gotta put the ball in play. Exit McCarty.

Enter Adrian Brown. In what was arguably the most critical at-bat of the season for the Red Sox, Grady Little turned to Adrian Brown. He of the 15 at bats on the year, 3-for-14 (.214) as a left-handed hitter.

Given that Macha had done precisely what anyone with a functioning neocortex could have anticipated, one has to assume that Grady either A) preferred the Adrian Brown v. Bradford matchup to the Nixon v. Rincon matchup or B) does not have a functioning neocortex.

In one sequence, Little had lost his starting right-fielder along with his .578 slugging percentage, wasted his best right-handed pinch hitter and left the team's fate in the hands of a guy who had hit .216 in his last full season in the Majors.

Brown fanned weakly against Bradford, the Red Sox failed to score, the A's tied it in the ninth and won it in the 12th. But not before Brown's spot came up again. With the score tied at 4-4, Brown was due to lead off the 11th against Keith Foulke. Little pinch hit for him with Gabe Kapler, who struck out looking. Like the rest of us, all Trot Nixon could do was watch.

The only thing that could seriously exacerbate Grady's managerial shortsightedness would be a move to the National League, where knowing what every guy on the opposing bench hits against lefties isn't just a suggestion. Double switch? Good luck.

Before we get to where all discussions of Grady's competence end up — that star-crossed 8th inning — let's talk about the last time Grady Little managed in Dodger Stadium. It was June of 2002.

Dodgers fans might remember that their team swept the Red Sox, part of Little's 5-13 Interleague record in '02.

I was at those games and here's what I wrote for the Boston Dirt Dogs website:

"Grady has done some brilliant maneuvering in this avalanche of one-run losses, moves that have resulted in such undesirable situations as Doug Mirabelli batting not once but twice with the bases loaded in an extra-inning loss to the Yanks, but his master stroke had to be sending up Brian Daubach to pinch hit against Eric Gagne with the tying run on third and one out in a one-run game. What the Sox needed desperately — the absolute imperative in that situation — was someone to put the ball in play, so Grady calls for a guy who has fanned in 10 of his 11 previous plate appearances. Did anyone in New England, anyone in the L.A. press box, anyone in the dugout think Dauber would put the ball in play there? Predictably, Dauby flails at ball four and the Sox lose.

But back to that final game in Yankee Stadium.

As noted above, some baseball people think Grady was unfairly vilified for leaving Pedro Martinez in to start the 8th inning against the Yankees in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS. Those people are wrong. When Grady sent Pedro out to start that fatal 8th and then went to the mound and got talked into leaving his ace in to incur further damage, it was the most glaring abdication of leadership in the long, depressing history of Boston mismanagement. Worse than Joe McCarthy starting Denny Galehouse in the one-game playoff against the Indians in 1948. Worse than Don Zimmer refusing to pitch Bill Lee against the Yankees in 1978. Worse than John McNamara leaving Bill Buckner at first base in Game 6 of the 1986 World Series.

Some astute Red Sox fans may have been shouting for Dave Stapleton to replace Buckner in '86, but in 2003 every single citizen of Red Sox Nation knew Pedro was done after seven. Except Grady Little. Not every fan might have known that opposing teams had hit .363 off of Pedro after 105 pitches that year, but they knew it was time to lift him. Not Grady.

Pedro faced five batters in the eighth and gave up four hits. Mike Timlin and Alan Embree, who between them made 16 scoreless appearances in the 2003 playoffs, just watched with the rest of us as a 5-2 lead became a 5-5 tie before Grady finally went and got the ball.

But as it turns out, the events of that miserable night in Yankee Stadium may have strangely proved a boon (not Boone) to Little. He is now measured almost entirely on that one indecisive non-decision. And there are those, apparently including Dodgers owner Frank McCourt, who think Little was justified in sending his ace back out for the eighth. You know, "Dance with the one that brung ya" and all those folksyisms that so conveniently replace intelligent analysis in the heat of battle. What the debate over that 8th inning does — happily for the now-employed Grady — is obscure all the other mistakes he made in his brief and deceptively successful tenure with the Red Sox.

So Merry Christmas, Dodgers fans. Enjoy your novelty gift. The joke's on you.

[Matthew]

Just a bad move by the Blue. Sadly enough, Jim Tracy would be a better manager with the current GM than Little. Worst managerial hire for the Dodgers since Davey Johnson. Well, at least Davey sat back and did nothing for two years, don't think Little will do that. What a come down for the Dodgers, (who I've been following since growing up in San Diego), the days of Walt Alston and Tommy Lasorda are long gone.