Jazz Concerts-bring small crowds

[Guest]

Last night (Sat =Oct 22) The West Michigan Jazz Society brought in one of Chiicago's top jazz groups - Henry Johnson and the Organ Express.

All we could muster was a crowd that was less than 80 people. (artisitcally a sucess but financially a loss). Is it Concerts donot draw as much as cabaret style settings??? I do not get it (tickets $15 were reaasonable) We have 450 WMJS members but where were they at? Was it the venue -in a bad part of town.=even though well lit and secured parking ? We had small inserts in paper about gig but no big article.

We have free Jazz at Grand Rapids Zoo's bandshell every monday night during the summer and we draw between 300 and 800 people Is it that people will come to something free but wont pay for it? Allso during the rest of year we have local jazz groups once a month at a cabaret type setting and we bring in between 80 and 150 people per gig.

We stopped our regular concert series of NATIONAL JAZZ ARTIST several years back because they were money losers.

I JUST DONT GET IT - Is this a general problem elsewhere or is it a problem only here in Grand Rapids ???

Jack M = President -West Michigan Jazz Society

[J.A.W.]

Welcome to this board.

Why did you post this in the Discography forum?

[Guest]

I did not realize that I put it in the Discograpy section.

I find this board very difficult to understand and post to - that is why I so seldom post to it. I wish it was not so complicated.

PS Where should it be ?? and how do I get it there ??

GR Jack M

  J.A.W. said:

Welcome to this board.

Why did you post this in the Discography forum?

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[J.A.W.]

  G R Jack said:

I did not realize that  I put it in the Discograpy section.

I find this board very difficult to understand and post to - that is why I so seldom post to it. I wish it was not so complicated.

PS Where should it be ?? and how do I get it there ??

GR Jack M

  J.A.W. said:

Welcome to this board.

Why did you post this in the Discography forum?

←

←

How about "Live Shows and Festivals"?

You can re-post it there and delete this thread here by using your moderating options at the bottom left-hand corner of this page.

Or, alternatively, you can ask Jim Alfredson (the owner of the board) in a PM to move this topic to that forum.

[Jim Alfredson]

Jack, welcome to the board. Don't worry about putting this thread in the "wrong place". I moved it and it is not a big deal.

On a side note to our regular members, just PM me if someone places something in the wrong forum. Not everyone is as computer savvy as the main posters around here.

To get to your original point, ie low turn-out for jazz gigs, I would have to say that as good as the Henry Johnson Organ Express is, they are not exactly high profile guys. That is not to say they aren't great musicians, but most people do not know who Henry Johnson is, much less his organist, the fantastic Chris Foreman, except for die-hard jazz organ fans or musicians.

As far as musicians are concerned, if we're lucky we're playing gigs on a Saturday night, not spending $15 to see a show. I was playing last night as was Randy Marsh, who called me to tell me that Henry was at the Wealthy St. Theater.

As far as die-hard jazz fans, it is my experience that they are more concerned with spending $15 on a CD than seeing music live. This is why organissimo is actively pursuing a younger audience that is more into the "jamband" scene. The younger kids actually spend money to go see a show, sometimes not buying the CD at all, which is fine with me since we make money by playing not by selling CDs.

Some of it might be the venue as well. I know when organissimo played the Wealthy St. Theater, we had maybe 20 people there. In our case, there was no advertising done and people probably didn't want to pay $10 to see us at the theater when they can see us (sometimes) at Billy's for a $5 cover charge.

There have been a recent string of muggins and car break-ins in that neighborhood recently, which is a real shame because it's a cool neighborhood. So that probably keeps people away.

I don't know if you've approached Billy's Lounge about hosting some concerts, but I bet that Henry Johnson's group would be a good draw there, if the ticket price was around $5 - $6. Yes, it's less than $15, but if you get more people in for less money than you wind up making more money that only getting a few people in for $15. I know that Melvin Sparks plays Billy's often and packs the place.

Another thing to consider is your competition for people's money, not only that night but for the week. We opened for John Scofield at the Intersection Tuesday night. Tickets were $22.50 ($26 at the door). Maybe a lot of Grand Rapids jazz fans went to see Sco and spent their money there and just couldn't spend another $15 to see Henry. The economy is shit, money is tight, and things are about to get worse with the onset of winter and increased heating costs.

Just some things to think about from someone "in the trenches"...

[Werf]

Eighty people is a good turnout for a jazz concert in Grand Rapids. The largest audiences I can remember for jazz concerts are in the 200 range, but only for long-time big name veterans, like Pharoah Sanders, Ahmad Jamal and Dave Holland. I was surprised to find turnout about the same for shows in Chicago, which I figured would've had bigger audiences. Unless the performer has the stature and name brand of a Wayne Shorter, Sonny Rollins, Pat Metheny or Keith Jarrett, I don't think it's possible to get audience numbers into the hundred(s). Unless it's free, of course.... I think the summer zoo series is as much an outdoor "event" as it is a musical draw. So it's not just that its free of charge.

[Jim Alfredson]

80 is not a bad turnout, but in the Wealthy St. Theater it probably felt like 10. We had almost 70 at the Creole Gallery in Lansing, which felt like a full house because the venue is so small.

How about a Grand Rapids Jazz Festival in the John Ball Park Zoo ampitheatre?