Unissued/Unreleased Grant Green

[Niko]

here are a few links regarding Rotterdam. This is not an explicit program so there is always the chance that nobody noticed Burrell and Green - but I am tempted to conclude that only Kessel was present (as part of the allstars) for this concert

http://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?cql%5B%5D=%28date+_gte_+%2201-01-1969%22%29&cql%5B%5D=%28date+_lte_+%2231-12-1969%22%29&query=%28barney+kessel%29&coll=ddd&identifier=ddd%3A010957039%3Ampeg21%3Aa0038&resultsidentifier=ddd%3A010957039%3Ampeg21%3Aa0038

http://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?cql%5B%5D=%28date+_gte_+%2201-01-1969%22%29&cql%5B%5D=%28date+_lte_+%2231-12-1969%22%29&query=%28barney+kessel%29&coll=ddd&identifier=ddd%3A011238461%3Ampeg21%3Aa0181&resultsidentifier=ddd%3A011238461%3Ampeg21%3Aa0181

http://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?cql%5B%5D=%28date+_gte_+%2201-01-1969%22%29&cql%5B%5D=%28date+_lte_+%2231-12-1969%22%29&query=%28newport+in+rotterdam%29&coll=ddd&identifier=ddd%3A010957055%3Ampeg21%3Aa0220&resultsidentifier=ddd%3A010957055%3Ampeg21%3Aa0220

 

in April btw, the announcement had been Tal Farlow and Barney Kessel

http://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?cql%5B%5D=%28date+_gte_+%2201-01-1969%22%29&cql%5B%5D=%28date+_lte_+%2231-12-1969%22%29&query=%28tal+farlow%29&coll=ddd&identifier=ddd%3A011238271%3Ampeg21%3Aa0178&resultsidentifier=ddd%3A011238271%3Ampeg21%3Aa0178

 

[hgweber]

thanks for the links! yes, i agree. no guitar workshop in rotterdam. those are fascinating documents btw. seems that neither miles nor taylor were well-received.

 

edit: here is berlin 1969. no guitar workshop either

http://www.berlinerfestspiele.de/de/chronicle/jazzfest/index/?finder%5B_req%5D=1&finder%5Bfulltext%5D=&finder%5Bmusik%5D=&finder%5Btitle%5D=&finder%5Byear%5D=1969&search=Suche

edit2: the allstars basel gig was recorded by MPS, including burrell. so probably a single concert by the allstars, no guitar workshop. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by hgweber

[robertoart]

2 hours ago, Niko said:

here are a few links regarding Rotterdam. This is not an explicit program so there is always the chance that nobody noticed Burrell and Green - but I am tempted to conclude that only Kessel was present (as part of the allstars) for this concert

http://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?cql%5B%5D=%28date+_gte_+%2201-01-1969%22%29&cql%5B%5D=%28date+_lte_+%2231-12-1969%22%29&query=%28barney+kessel%29&coll=ddd&identifier=ddd%3A010957039%3Ampeg21%3Aa0038&resultsidentifier=ddd%3A010957039%3Ampeg21%3Aa0038

http://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?cql%5B%5D=%28date+_gte_+%2201-01-1969%22%29&cql%5B%5D=%28date+_lte_+%2231-12-1969%22%29&query=%28barney+kessel%29&coll=ddd&identifier=ddd%3A011238461%3Ampeg21%3Aa0181&resultsidentifier=ddd%3A011238461%3Ampeg21%3Aa0181

http://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?cql%5B%5D=%28date+_gte_+%2201-01-1969%22%29&cql%5B%5D=%28date+_lte_+%2231-12-1969%22%29&query=%28newport+in+rotterdam%29&coll=ddd&identifier=ddd%3A010957055%3Ampeg21%3Aa0220&resultsidentifier=ddd%3A010957055%3Ampeg21%3Aa0220

 

in April btw, the announcement had been Tal Farlow and Barney Kessel

http://www.delpher.nl/nl/kranten/view?cql%5B%5D=%28date+_gte_+%2201-01-1969%22%29&cql%5B%5D=%28date+_lte_+%2231-12-1969%22%29&query=%28tal+farlow%29&coll=ddd&identifier=ddd%3A011238271%3Ampeg21%3Aa0178&resultsidentifier=ddd%3A011238271%3Ampeg21%3Aa0178

 

That's right, now I remember, it was Tal Farlow!!! But where did I read this? Liner Notes, The Andrews Green bio?

[hgweber]

49 minutes ago, robertoart said:

That's right, now I remember, it was Tal Farlow!!! But where did I read this? Liner Notes, The Andrews Green bio?

it was discussed here:

 

[hgweber]

this is odd:

Reuben Wilson Septet

Lee Morgan (trumpet) George Coleman (tenor sax) Reuben Wilson (organ) Grant Green (guitar) Jimmy Lewis (electric bass) Leo Morris (drums) Joe Sircus (congas -2)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, October 31, 1969

1. (tk.5)	Hold On, I'm Comin'	Blue Note B1-31883
2.	Ma Cherie Amour	rejected

from: www.jazzdisco.org

[danasgoodstuff]

2 hours ago, hgweber said:

this is odd:

Reuben Wilson Septet

Lee Morgan (trumpet) George Coleman (tenor sax) Reuben Wilson (organ) Grant Green (guitar) Jimmy Lewis (electric bass) Leo Morris (drums) Joe Sircus (congas -2)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, October 31, 1969

1. (tk.5)	Hold On, I'm Comin'	Blue Note B1-31883
2.	Ma Cherie Amour	rejected

from: www.jazzdisco.org

Not so odd, either they were trying to do an album and it really didn't go well, or (more likely) they were cutting a single and it wasn't issued at the time but was later added to the earlier album Love Bug (which has identical personnel IIRC) as a CD bonus track (after having been first issued on the Lost Grooves compilation. Best Sam & Dave cover on BN?

[robertoart]

On 18/03/2017 at 11:50 AM, bertrand said:

it was discussed here:

I might have known I read about it on a thread here!!

[hgweber]

8 hours ago, danasgoodstuff said:

Not so odd, either they were trying to do an album and it really didn't go well, or (more likely) they were cutting a single and it wasn't issued at the time but was later added to the earlier album Love Bug (which has identical personnel IIRC) as a CD bonus track (after having been first issued on the Lost Grooves compilation. Best Sam & Dave cover on BN?

but grant was in europe on oct 31 1969?

[robertoart]

12 hours ago, hgweber said:

but grant was in europe on oct 31 1969?

Well that would make sense then. Carryin On was recorded on Oct 3. Is it the liner notes to that one that mentions GG has just returned from playing a guitar workshop in Europe? If the Ronnie Scott date of 24th Oct is correct, it makes sense the Paris film was made sometime in the last week of Oct before Green may have returned to New Yorkand participated in the Reuben Wilson 45 session, if indeed the date of that session is correct. So maybe GG was only in Paris and London for a week or a few days, while Burrell and Kessell (who was living in London at the time if I'm not mistaken) remained for the body of the tour? Interestingly Grant plays I Dont Want Nothing in Paris, which he has freshly recorded for the Carryin On album a few weeks earlier. I'm assuming the Carryin On album hadn't hit the streets until after the Guitar Workshop gigs? All this is conjecture at any rate?

[hgweber]

1 hour ago, robertoart said:

Well that would make sense then. Carryin On was recorded on Oct 3. Is it the liner notes to that one that mentions GG has just returned from playing a guitar workshop in Europe? If the Ronnie Scott date of 24th Oct is correct, it makes sense the Paris film was made sometime in the last week of Oct before Green may have returned to New Yorkand participated in the Reuben Wilson 45 session, if indeed the date of that session is correct. So maybe GG was only in Paris and London for a week or a few days, while Burrell and Kessell (who was living in London at the time if I'm not mistaken) remained for the body of the tour? Interestingly Grant plays I Dont Want Nothing in Paris, which he has freshly recorded for the Carryin On album a few weeks earlier. I'm assuming the Carryin On album hadn't hit the streets until after the Guitar Workshop gigs? All this is conjecture at any rate?

but it can't be. the band minus grant recorded in basel on oct 29. so the earliest possible date for the paris concert would be oct 30. but the color vid of the allstars is probably correctly placed at nov 1. from the setup we see that the guitar workshop played as well. so the reuben wilson date must be wrong.

i think grant flew to london last week of oct. he played ronnie scotts with the workshop at least on nov. 28. then he played two gigs in paris, one double bill with the allstars on nov 1 and another gig with the workshop maybe one or two days earlier. he then flew home while the rest travelled to copenhagen for the nov 2 gig.

[danasgoodstuff]

Are we sure we don't have an American date convention v. European issue - month/day/year v. day/month/year?

Or, how 'bout this for a theory - if Grant really couldn't have been at Rudy's on 10/31/69 maybe that was an overdubbing session to add the percussion or something?

[hgweber]

the dates are clear. the wrongly dated wilson session is just a minor detail imo. what i got from this:

- a GG trio set at ronnie scott's was recorded and parts were aired by the bbc on august 20 1970. that could be worth hunting for,

- GG performed in paris at least twice, maybe the other gig was recorded as well (since color cameras were there for the allstars on the same stage)

-these were probably the only gigs grant played in europe in 1969. 

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by hgweber

[hgweber]

more GG from the short rejected session on oct 27 1961

 

 

[robertoart]

Some exciting news on the Grant Green front... courtesy of members who moonlight on other forums .

 

...Paris and Antibes, plus 'Oil Can Harry's'??? 

http://www.downbeat.com/digitaledition/2018/DB1803/single_page_view/10.html

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by robertoart

[Dan Gould]

5 hours ago, robertoart said:

Some exciting news on the Grant Green front... courtesy of members who moonlight on other forums .

 

...Paris and Antibes, plus 'Oil Can Harry's'??? 

http://www.downbeat.com/digitaledition/2018/DB1803/single_page_view/10.html

 

Woh.

[Hardbopjazz]

8 hours ago, robertoart said:

Some exciting news on the Grant Green front... courtesy of members who moonlight on other forums .

 

...Paris and Antibes, plus 'Oil Can Harry's'??? 

http://www.downbeat.com/digitaledition/2018/DB1803/single_page_view/10.html

 

Both the Wes and Grant music is good. I've had it for a while. I'm surprised it has taken this long to find a label to release the music. 

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, Hardbopjazz said:

Both the Wes and Grant music is good. I've had it for a while. I'm surprised it has taken this long to find a label to release the music. 

I was thinking the Paris stuff is what's on youtube and I downloaded/extracted audio from that set but I won't mind better sound on that. I never heard of the Antibbes date or the other live set. 

[hgweber]

the antibes is probably quartet with organ. 

did you guys notice the extra footage from ronnie scott's at the beginning of the sharony green movie? so there *is* more out there.

[monkboughtlunch]

Great news.  A Google search shows that Oil Can Harry's in Vancouver was open from 1966 - 1977.  Is "Oil Can" a  previously  unknown recording?  I wonder how well it was recorded.  One old news article  references jazz artists appearing during the 1975-77 period.  Ahmad Jamal even recorded a 1976 album at Oil Can Harry's.  So perhaps the Green material from this venue is circa 75-77 period too.  I wonder if Green plays any straight ahead jazz, blues or standards at Oil Can Harry's -- or if he is still in his "funk" mode similar to his early 70s stuff.

A web site in France published something about this new Green release but the web page was taken down.  There is a brief blurb still findable via a search engine.  It makes reference to studio recordings at the ORTF.  Have any Green ORTF studio recordings circulated -- or is that new too?

Below is a Google translation of the missing Muziq French web page:

"Dec 26, 2017 - In April and next May, the essential American label Resonance Records will release two unreleased live tracks from the great guitarist Grant Green, "Funk In France - Live And In-Studio At The ORTF & Antibes (1969-1970)" and "Green, Grim & Grease: Live At Oil Can Harry's". "Funk In France - Live And In-Studio ..."

 

Deux live inédits de Grant Green ! | Muziq

www.muziq.fr/grant-green-made-in-france/

1.  

Translate this page

Dec 26, 2017 - En avril et en mai prochains, l'indispensable label américain Resonance Records publiera deux live inédits du grand guitariste Grant Green, “Funk In France – Live And In-Studio At The ORTF & Antibes (1969-1970)” et “Green, Grim & Grease : Live At Oil Can Harry's”. “Funk In France – Live And In-Studio ...

 

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by monkboughtlunch

[monkboughtlunch]

On 1/25/2018 at 0:33 PM, hgweber said:

the antibes is probably quartet with organ. 

did you guys notice the extra footage from ronnie scott's at the beginning of the sharony green movie? so there *is* more out there.

Yes - and the video quality of the London 69 stuff in the sharony doc is superb!  She only included a few seconds of footage at the beginning and the end -- probably kept it brief due to licensing fees.

The Wikipedia page for Ahmad Jamal's Recorded Live at Oil Can Harry's album suggests it was recorded live for the Saturday All Nite Jazz Show on CHQM radio.   If the Grant Green "Oil Can" performance that Resonance is releasing was also recorded by radio station CHQM -- that's great news as it suggests it may be a professional stereo soundboard recording originally intended for broadcast.  Hopefully Resonance will soon publish a promo video about the upcoming Green recordings on YouTube that survey the material and includes some sound samples. 

This Green release is really exciting news from Resonance.  They put out legal releases and they have an ear for great sound quality as well.  The new Resonance "Wes Montgomery In Paris: The Definitive ORTF Recording" has amazing sound quality that leaves the bootlegs in the dust.  

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by monkboughtlunch

[Dan Gould]

I think the totally new show from Vancouver and the "studio" part of the France recording is what excites me the most.  

[monkboughtlunch]

I did some digging and found that the Oil Can Harry's date is from September 5, 1975.  Features: Emmanuel Riggins on electric piano, Ronnie Ware on bass, Greg Williams on drums and Gerald Izzard on percussion.

I posted additional info on the Steve Hoffman forums.  See here: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/previously-unissued-live-grant-green.726627/

Edited January 28, 2018 by monkboughtlunch

[monkboughtlunch]

On 1/25/2018 at 0:33 PM, hgweber said:

the antibes is probably quartet with organ. 

did you guys notice the extra footage from ronnie scott's at the beginning of the sharony green movie? so there *is* more out there.

The quality of the transferred footage (presumably from BBC quad videotapes) is excellent.  I made some screen captures to show the resolution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by monkboughtlunch

[monkboughtlunch]

I would assume the 1969 Paris part of the Resonance set will include most if not all of these tracks which know exist from circulating video.

In the circulating Paris video of Blue Mist, the footage cuts off before the songs ends. So more material may exist which does not circulate. Not sure if Resonance will include the Kessel and Burrell features.

Setlist: Paris 1969 circuating videotapes

1. Don't Want Nobody to Give Me Nothing
2. Oleo
3. How Insensitive
4. All Day Long [or this could be alternately titled a Green original blues]
5. Sonnymoon for Two
6. How Could You Do a Thing Like That To Me
7. I Wish You Love
8. I'm Glad There Is You (Kessel feature -- maybe this will be cut out?)
9. Imagination (Burrell feature - maybe this will be cut out?)
10. Blue Mist

Antibes 1970

We know that there were at least two songs recorded at Antibes 1970. Was there more recorded?

1. Upshot
2. High Heel Sneakers

ORTF studio (69 or 70) and Oil Can Harry's (1975)

Then there are the previously unknown studio French ORTF recordings -- and the Vancouver Oil Can Harry's 1975 live date. Anyone have a handle on what those tracks are?

Edited January 28, 2018 by monkboughtlunch

[monkboughtlunch]

Found a pdf file called "Jazz on french TV-1952 - 2001 from 29 different TV series / festivals on ORTF-archive & INA-lists."   http://www.rainerjazz.de/pdf/F-Hoffmann-France-No.01-28%20frenchTV-series%201952-2001(Aug.16.pdf   

Green appeared on a show the title of which translates as "Jazz at the Radio House."  The interesting thing is the date of Oct. 26, 1969.  If this date is actually correct, it explains how Green could have returned to RVG's studio in time for the Reuben Wilson Oct. 31, 1969 date.

Unclear if this is the same exact Paris footage that now circulates or whether this is another French recording made during the same tour. However, the songs appear to align precisely with the circulating 1969 video.

69/10/26-TV, 138min., Jazz à la Maison de la radio : spéciale guitaristes; - Trio Grant Green (g) unknown (b)(d): I Don't Want Nobody to Give Me Nothing (=Open up the Door I'll Get It Myself by James Brown) / Oléo (Sonny Rollins) / un thème indéterminé (Carlos Jobim) / Blues (Gr.Green) / - 30min. Trio Barney Kessel (g) Larry Ridley (b) Don Lamond (d): Fly me to the moon / The Man I Love / unknown titles / - 30min. Trio Kenny Burrell (g) unknown (b) (d): unknown titles / - Grant Green, Barney Kessel, Kenny Burrell (g) poss. Larry Ridley (b) Don Lamond (d): unknown item /

Edited January 29, 2018 by monkboughtlunch