Unreleased Monk on Columbia

[monkboughtlunch]

The other Thelonious Monk thread mentioned unreleased live Columbia dates exist in Sony's vaults:

1. 1965 Brandeis University

2. 1967 Mexico City

Does anyone have a setlist for these two dates? Are there any other unissued live recordings in the Columbia archive?

Also, the other thread mentions "Big Band and Quartet in Concert" and "Monk's Blues" are the only 2 Columbia LP's remaining which have not been given a Legacy CD facelift. (These still have the purple border on the cover art, indicating a late 80s or early 90s remaster.)

Since both these titles were apparently remixed for CD in 1994, does Legacy intend to remaster them again? Is existing "Big Band and Quartet" date complete? Can anything be added in the way of bonus material for either date?

[Kalo]

I'd like to know more about this, too.

[Chuck Nessa]

The current (1994) version of "Big Band and Quartet I Concert" is complete.

[monkboughtlunch]

The current (1994) version of "Big Band and Quartet I Concert" is complete.

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The remixed sound is pretty good on that one too isn't it? How much of a sonic upgrade could Legacy squeeze out of that one?

I guess the only thing they could really do would be to add an essay, unpublished photos, and restore the original LP cover art, removing the cheesy 1990s purple/blue Columbia Masterworks border (what was Columbia thinking with that ugly design anyway).

[jazzbo]

I would like to see a new reissue and would buy it; I feel that sonics could and would be improved; the newest Columbia releases sound much better than the house sound circa 1994. . . .

I don't have any knowlegde of what may be unrleased in the Monk section of the Columbia vaults. Certainly there may be some more concert recordings in the can. .. that seems very likely considering the contents of "Mysterioso". . . .

[JSngry]

I guess the only thing they could really do would be to add an essay, unpublished photos, and restore the original LP cover art, removing the cheesy 1990s purple/blue Columbia Masterworks border (what was Columbia thinking with that ugly design anyway).

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Well, they could always combine it with Monk's Blues and restore this classic piece of coverart wierdness...

I've owned this one since it was first released, and, depending on my "condition" while viewing, have found it in turns trite, hilarious, and absolutely horrifying!

Edited October 9, 2005 by JSngry

[Michael Fitzgerald]

What would *really* do it would be to add some of the best moments from the Monk big band rehearsal tapes, recorded by Eugene Smith at his loft. There are some amazing things to be heard.

Mike

[mikeweil]

Yes, the Licoln Center double CD was all there is as far as the concert itself is concerned - I would buy a sonic upgrade any day, all the more if some rehearsal material was included.

The previous Monk's Blues also included all there is, including a bonus solo 'Round Midnight.

I vote against a CD counterpart of the "wolf" double LP: it had the edited versions which thankfully were restored to completeness on the 1994 CD, it would make it a 3-CD set which Columbia sells at insane prices, and musically, Oliver Nelson's and Hall Overton's arrangements are worlds apart - so should be the reissues.

I'd buy any of the Brandeis or Mexico material any day - the one or two tracks on the Misterioso LP are worth listening.

There was an take of Honeysuckle Rose recorded at the end of one of the Jazz Workshop gigs, that Keepnews left off the double CD - probably beacuse he ran out of playing time, and it was faded in - IIRC the engineers had turned the tape machines off already when the band played one more tune. This and the recently issued Round Midnight from Newport 55 would make a good starting point for a disc of Columbia "leftovers", if the unissued concerts do not yield enough releasable material.

[kh1958]

Dave Brubeck recorded Bravo Brubeck and Buried Treasures in Mexico City, I believe in 1967. Did Monk play at the same concerts?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Yes - see the blues issued on "Summit Sessions" listed as "C Jam Blues" (incorrectly because there is no melody and it's not in C) where Brubeck and Monk play together.

Mike

[mikeweil]

That LP Summit Sessions never was on CD, at least in the US, right?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Not that I know of.

[paul secor]

Also, the other thread mentions "Big Band and Quartet in Concert" and "Monk's Blues" are the only 2 Columbia LP's remaining which have not been given a Legacy CD facelift.  (These still have the purple border on the cover art, indicating a late 80s or early 90s remaster.)

Since both these titles were apparently remixed for CD in 1994, does Legacy intend to remaster them again? 

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Sure, if we'll buy them again (and again, and again ....)

[monkboughtlunch]

Have any Monk experts determined the setlists for the Brandeis U. and Mexico City shows?

Or does Columbia/Sony keep the setlists under lock and key?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

There are only four tracks from Mexico City 1967. These are Green Chimneys, Don't Blame Me, Evidence, and the Brubeck blues - this information is in Chris Sheridan's book "Brilliant Corners".

The Brandeis set:

Misterioso

Well, You Needn't

Straight No Chaser/Blue Monk

I'm Getting Sentimental Over You

Epistrophy

Evidence

Ba-lue Bolivar Ba-lues-are

Rhythm-a-ning

Epistrophy

Mike

[monkboughtlunch]

So Sony could fit all the brandeis and mexico city material into a 2 CD set?

Did Columbia record any rehearsals prior to the "Big Band & Quartet" concert that could be added as bonus tracks?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Columbia recorded no rehearsals. Plenty of big band rehearsals were recorded by Eugene Smith at his loft, both for the 1959 Town Hall concert, for the 1963 Philharmonic Hall concert, and for the 1964 Carnegie Hall concert.

Mike

[mikeweil]

So this this would have a better home on the Monk family label?

[monkboughtlunch]

Who is Eugene Smith? Are these amateur recordings?

[monkboughtlunch]

Did Columbia record the 64 Carnegie Hall concert?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

See http://cds.aas.duke.edu/jazzloft/

I can't say 100% but I do not believe Columbia recorded the 1964 Carnegie Hall show.

Mike

[marcello]

Who is Eugene Smith?  Are these amateur recordings?

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Two by Eugene Smith; one of the most powerful image makers ( really a image innovator ) in photography:

[brownie]

More photos from a true giant of Photography

W. Eugene Smith

The link includes the portrait of Thelonious Monk which was on the cover of the Columbia album 'Monk.'

[monkboughtlunch]

I posted some questions for Orin Keepnews about whether Sony/Legacy will complete the Columbia Monk remaster/upgrade campaign.

Kevin Bresnahan was kind enough to pass on the questions to Mr. Keepnews. Here is the response from Mr. Keepnews that Mr. Bresnahan posted:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I contacted Orrin to let him know that there were some questions here and he responded that he is on his way out the door for a week but he asked me to post some answers for you.

Kevin [bresnahan]

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From Orrin Keepnews:

Will you please ask Mr. Keepnews if Sony/Legacy plans to complete the remaster/upgrading of the Columbia Thelonious Monk catalog.

At this time I am actually not doing much for Sony -- apparently they are concentrating right now on material that they consider to have stronger sales potential than most jazz items. But there really is nothing much left undone with the listed material. Note that in order to answer promptly, I am working from memory rather than formal notation, but I think the following is basically accurate:

1. Big Band & Quartet in Concert (1963) remix and remaster

Everything recorded has been reissued -- there is a package that says on the cover that it is the entire concert.

2. Monk's Blues (1968) remix and remaster

I have trouble remembering that this is the title of the Oliver-Nelson-arrangements material, but I believe it is. I have worked through all of this and what has not been issued has to be considered not usable. There were recording problems, band performance problems, breakdowns -- I do not happen to believe that it is valid to issue incomplete and unsuccessful scraps, and it is usually quite disrespectful to the artist. I know that some people feel otherwise, but certainly these particular sessions do not warrant being picked over any further.

Plus unissued live material:

3. Brandeis University (1965)

I have listened thoroughly and found, I believe, one usuable complete selection, which may have been issued, although I'm not quite certain. This was apparently a technically botched evening -- incomplete numbers (at least one lacking both beginning and end), bad sound, etc.

4. Mexico City (1967)

I think there is one quartet number (with an incredibly long Larry Gales bass solo) still unissued, and probably likely to stay that way.

Is there any additional Columbia material left that I'm forgetting?

I don't believe that you have forgotten anything, and it is unlikely that there is any more unknown Columbia material -- but you really can't be certain. Tape vaults can be pretty strange places, and sometimes jazz performances aren't as systematically documented as you might want. Just a few years ago, you may recall, a Monk live-at-Newport set turned up that nobody seemed to have been aware of, so it became possible to make a full CD of his Newport appearances, without Monk having to share the record with an entirely unrelated Miles Davis set.

Edited October 15, 2005 by monkboughtlunch

[monkboughtlunch]

It looks from Mr. Keepnews comments that Sony has no immediate plans to upgrade either "Big Band & Quartet in Concert" or "Monk's Blues."

Both these dates were reissued on CD in 1994.

I've listened to my copy of "Big Band & Quartet" and hope they do upgrade this for the following reasons.

1. Sound - Although this was remixed and remastered by Vic Anesini (one of the best in the business) circa 1993, a DSD transfer and more modern mastering technology may further improve fidelity.

2. False overlapping applause - the 1994 mix of "Big Band & Quartet" falsely mixes the outgoing applause from the first set on top of the first several bars of "Darkness in the Delta." If you listen to "Darkness in the Delta" on the 2001 Sony Monk compilation, there is no applause at the beginning of the song--it's dry.

3. Set breakup - The 1994 version splits the 3 sets down the middle. It would flow better if the first two sets were on disc one, and the third set on disc 2.

4. Original Artwork - The 1994 version not only has the ugly blue-purple Columbia Masterworks border, it also removes the stage spotlight above Monk's head on the original album cover. This is one of the coolest Columbia album covers ever, and the 1994 version butchers it.

5. Original Liner Notes - missing in the 1994 version

6. Photos - no photos from the actual concert in the 1994 version