***Weather Report Corner***

[Guy Berger]

We've discussed Weather Report quite a few times on this board, but it's time they've had their own thread. I've been listening to a bunch of live recordings from 1973 and earlier (a great one from Chateauvallon, France 8/73 right now) and they're great. Lots of great ensemble improvisation, making music that appealed to the masses and made them think, as Zawinul wanted.

I think the group started declining after 1974, with a major drop-off after Black Market, though I've found that I enjoy something on almost every WR album.

Guy

p.s. Interestingly, in the 73 boot I mention above Zawinul does a solo piano version of "Sophisticated Lady".

Edited March 23, 2006 by Jim Alfredson

[Jazz Kat]

I first got into other stuff that wasn't straight ahead two summer's ago. They were about the third group I discovered in that genre. I bought Heavy Weather and I hated it. They say its their best so I didn't bother with anything else. I'm slowly liking the album a little. But I still don't love it.

[Guy Berger]

I bought Heavy Weather and I hated it. They say its their best

I think you'll find that many would disagree about HW being their best. Every WR album prior to that one is better IMHO.

Guy

[Jazz Kat]

"The album that put Weather Report on the map!" It says that right on the cover so I guess you know how I got that impression. I might go back and check some of the stuff out, but jazz has moved on...

[Free For All]

"The album that put Weather Report on the map!"

←

In the commercial sense.

I like HW but it's not my favorite by any means. I prefer Black Market and all the recordings that came before it to what came after.

Everyone should check out Live In Tokyo IMHO.

Edited October 3, 2005 by Free For All

[Guy Berger]

"The album that put Weather Report on the map!" It says that right on the cover so I guess you know how I got that impression. I might go back and check some of the stuff out, but jazz has moved on...

←

From Live in Tokyo to Spyro Gyra. All hail progress... I agree w/FFA about Live in Tokyo -- maybe the best WR on record. The band is totally ON. (Judging by the live recordings I've heard, not unusual for these guys.) None of the commercial compromises or cliches that the word "fusion" would imply just a few years later. As far as studio albums Sweetnighter is my favorite.

Guy

Edited October 3, 2005 by Guy

[Joe G]

JazzKat, I highly recommend that you go back and check out the earlier stuff, starting with Black Market, then working your way back. Before long you'll probably be obsessed. Though frankly, I'm suprised you don't at least like Havona from HW.

[Free For All]

I also think "A Remark You Made" is a beautiful tune.

I think part of what spoiled HW for many was all the subsequent versions of Birdland, which was not all that great of a tune to begin with. It became the new "Chameleon".

[Jazz Kat]

Yeah, it is a beautiful tune!

[Guest akanalog]

i definitely feel weather report is much much better represented on live recordings.

it's too bad they released that stupid two disc live and unreleased thing last year rather than some individual shows. also they gave short shrift of pre-jaco stuff, which i think is where it is at. i'd much rather hear al johnson or even vituous (since i like the sound of an acoustic bass with weather report too) than jaco. jaco and erskine era-meh fusion.

i just watched a DVD of a set i have on CD too of weather report live in germany in 1971 with john surman and alan skidmore and some scano trombonist making up a little horn section for some of the music. pretty cool. this was when mouzon was still in the band

sweetnight i think is the best studio album though tale spinnin' is aight and i like body electric for the studio stuff and also for the taste of the live stuff (of course that live double disc is good too but sometimes for some reason i like having this condensation on the body electric disc).

[Guest akanalog]

actually almost any live weather report is good.

i saw a tape of some live weather report when it was jaco acuna badrena and the music was so much better than the studio stuff on heavy weather. really percolating and rhythmically complex. i went out and got a DVD of this same group and found it boring but i know what they are capable of and have been seeking more.

live '75 stuff is good too. they would play some sweetnighter, some mysterious traveller and some tale spinnin' stuff.

i dont get why both weather report and miles loved playing that tune directions so much. did cannonball play it too? i think the head is annoying. i wonder what the appeal was.

i thought many consider mysterious traveller to be the best album. i think it is ok but i dunno-never totally grabbed me. sounds patchy.

[jazzbo]

I saw WR about five times from 1973 to 1985. Each show was great! I actually have to say I enjoyed the NonJaco shows the best; they were less "big rock concert" like.

On record, I love the earliest stuff through when Jaco first entered the band, these are the best RECORDS. They didn't make better records after that but what I heard live and in person was very good. I do like some of the final lps too, like Domino Theory. . . that is quite a record.

[Guest akanalog]

seems like jaco could bog them down live too sometimes with his lengthy features.

[JSngry]

Domino Theory. . . that is quite a record.

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Damn straight it is!

I also pulled out Night Passage a few months ago, and really dug it too. Yeah, it's (mostly) a blazing chop-fest, but if you listen to what those chops are blazing on, it's not just licks, patterns, and all the other things that killed fusion (and just in the nick of time!), it's pure music, and damn creative music it is at that. Dizzy Dean's classic quote about how it ain't braggin' if you can back it up definitely applies here.

It at once tickles me and frustrates me when I hear younger/newer "jazz fans" get into a hissy-fit about synthesizers and such sounding "dated" and stuff like that. Whatever. A saxophone section sounds dated. A harpsichord sounds dated. A minuet sounds dated. Sonata-allegro form sounds dated. Hell - all music sounds, or will sound, dated. It's all sound, and all/any sound is living and valid if you make music with it, if you create, not re-create with it. Same with rhythms -there's no such thing as an intrinsically invalid rhythm in my book. Just make it live, don't strangle it to death.

Like a wise ancestor once said - 'Tain't What You Do, It's the Way That You Do It. A (relatively) few duds and misfires notwithstanding, whatever Weather Report did, they did with creativity, elan, and, at times, outright gonzo gusto and sophistication. It's the element of gonzo sophistication that I think eludes some people. It's not an oxymoronic concept, although only a very limited number of individuals seem to be able to pull it off. And Joe Zawinul is definitely one who of 'em.

I guess it's a sign of these post Reagan/Marsalis times that such things are now viewed as suspect by so many, but I'll take a mediocre Weather Report jam over another faux-"exciting" hard bop regurgitation any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Better to try and fail at something of your own than to suceed at being somebody else.

[Guy Berger]

I do like some of the final lps too, like Domino Theory. . . that is quite a record.

Haven't heard all of Domino Theory, though I think I have MP3s of one or two tracks I downloaded back in the heyday of Napster. ("D Flat Waltz" and something else.) I do have Procession, though, and it's a nice album. Better IMHO than 8:30, Night Passage or the 2nd self-titled album.

And as far as the ragging on "Directions" -- I really dig this tune. I like it best with Miles's group in '69 and early '70.

Interestingly Zawinul claimed that he composed "It's About That Time", and that tune pops up on several WR shows I've heard. I'm usually skeptical about what comes out of Zawinul's mouth.

Guy

[Evonce]

I Sing the Body Electric is easily one of my favorite albums ever. It's also the first WR album I heard, so that early period defines the band for me, on up to Mysterious Traveller.

I enjoy the albums that came afterward, but not nearly on the same level.

[CJ Shearn]

I've kept Live in Tokyo, and got tired of albums like Heavy Weather and Black Market. There are great tunes on those albums, but Live in Tokyo, which admittedly I have to be in a mood to listen to, is the hottest WR I've ever heard on record.

[Guest akanalog]

ive been listening to a lot of live in 75 stuff this week. it is really good.

who is in this group? is this al johnson/chester thompson/alex acuna rhythm section?

great stuff.

did anyone read the zawinul quotes where he sort of ripped vitous regarding why he was cut from the band and al johnson was hired? i think vitous could get funky. he seems like an egotistical dude, but he could lay it down. i dont agree with zawinul here.

there is a great weather report fansite. dont know the url. but this is where i read these quotes.

why was chester thompson fired? i like him as a drummer/

[Mr. Gone]

ive been listening to a lot of live in 75 stuff this week.  it is really good.

who is in this group?  is this al johnson/chester thompson/alex acuna rhythm section?

great stuff.

http://www.threeviews.com

why was chester thompson fired?  i like him as a drummer/

←

http://www.binkie.net/wrdisc/Black%20Market.html

&

http://www.binkie.net/wrdisc/Heavy%20Weather.html

[Guest akanalog]

wow thanks mr. gone! i like you more than most people. though i think you might have been an album of the week here which should make you feel nice.

[Guy Berger]

did anyone read the zawinul quotes where he sort of ripped vitous regarding why he was cut from the band and al johnson was hired?  i think vitous could get funky.  he seems like an egotistical dude, but he could lay it down.  i dont agree with zawinul here.

I think Zawinul could give Vitous a run in the egoism department.

Guy

[GA Russell]

I met Vitous when Infinite Search was just out, and we chatted for ten minutes. He didn't seem egotistical at all to me. This was about 1969, and he was playing with Herbie Mann.

[Guy Berger]

I met Vitous when Infinite Search was just out, and we chatted for ten minutes.  He didn't seem egotistical at all to me.  This was about 1969, and he was playing with Herbie Mann.

←

My opinion comes from an AAJ he did when the recent ECM album came out. So he might have changed in the interim.

To jump back to akanalog's point, I can see what Zawinul was getting at, even if some of his criticisms seem over-the-top. JZ wanted Weather Report to move to a much funkier sound, and to some degree MV wasn't interested in or capable of doing that (as he himself admitted).

Guy

Edited October 8, 2005 by Guy

[Aggie87]

up....

this from Music Tap:

Progressive jazz fans, especially lovers of the '70s band, Weather Report, will be pleased to learn that there will be a Box set arriving on May 16. We'll have more details as I get it.

[Mr. Gone]

up....

this from Music Tap:

Progressive jazz fans, especially lovers of the '70s band, Weather Report, will be pleased to learn that there will be a Box set arriving on May 16. We'll have more details as I get it.

?

Joe has also obtained the rights to the May 13, 1983 Weather Report concert video originally aired on the German television program Rockpalast. The concert features Joe and Wayne with Victor Bailey, Omar Hakim and Jose Rossy. The set list includes material from Night Passage, Procession and Domino Theory. Joe plans to bring this out on DVD, also on BirdJam. (The 1978 Rockpalast concert, with Jaco Pastorius and Peter Erskine, is planned to be part of the boxed set currently being produced by Sony/Legacy recordings, described here more than a year ago.)

Weather Report Boxed Set in the Works

February 8, 2005

A small blurb in the recent issue of Down Beat magazine mentioned that Sony/Legacy Recordings is working on a Weather Report boxed set. My sources tell me that current plans call for three CDs and a DVD. The CDs will be an overview of Weather Report's existing catalog. Also included will be a remix of "125th Street Congress," an unissued version of "Directions" with Eric Gravatt from November 1971, a complete version of "Eurydice," and a live performance of "Mysterious Traveller" from December 1974. The DVD might be the 1978 Offenbach concert. No word on when this might be released. As we know, plans can change, so we'll just have to stay tuned!

http://www.binkie.net/zawinul/

Well, we'll see...