Larry Kart Posted October 1, 2005 Report Posted October 1, 2005 Don't think I'm being sentimental Monk and Trane at Carnegie Hall, let alone indulging in necrophilia. Instead, I was just trying to identify/speculate about a feeling that came at me strongly from this disc as I was listening to it and that I think is in and of this particular music much more than it is something that I'm bringing to the party. Also, FWIW, I hear many things these days that knock me out and/or hold promise of much that's to come that will be vital -- along with lots of things that don't thrill me at all or are depressing on the way to ominous. Quote
Free For All Posted October 1, 2005 Report Posted October 1, 2005 Kenny G putting himself on a track with Pops, now THAT'S necrophilia! Quote
medjuck Posted October 1, 2005 Report Posted October 1, 2005 Not to be a bore...bit Orin Keepnews said the Jazzland tracks were recorded AFTER Trane left Monk, and was already maybe with Miles! In 1958. If true, your 'theory' goes out the window. So, let's stop overanylizing this and just enjoy this terrific music, like the Bird Diz Town Hall. I just wish something being recorded today would bring 'tears' to all your eyes and this much excitement. I'm all into digging the past, but there's a touch of necrophilia in some of these posts. ← Both Monk discographies I have refer to Keepnews and say he's just plain wrong. They say that the recording took place sometimes in July '57. Quote
medjuck Posted October 1, 2005 Report Posted October 1, 2005 Has anyone compared this recording to the one made in '58? I like this one quite a bit better and not just because the sound is so much better. Also: What was the critical reaction to the concert when it took place? Did it miss the point as much as the reviews of the Bird/Diz concert do? (I don't have the booklet for the Trane /Monk becasue I bought it from iTunes-- couldn't wait for it to arrive in a local store or via mail. ) Quote
Larry Kart Posted October 1, 2005 Report Posted October 1, 2005 None of the booklet essays (or whatever you want to call them) mention any reviews of the concert. If there had been any, I'm sure that fact would have been mentioned somewhere in the booklet. Also, Ira Gitler in his essay wonders why neither he nor anyone he knew/knows was at the concert, though he was often at the Five Spot to hear the band. Quote
mikeweil Posted October 2, 2005 Report Posted October 2, 2005 Not to be a bore...bit Orin Keepnews said the Jazzland tracks were recorded AFTER Trane left Monk, and was already maybe with Miles! In 1958. If true, your 'theory' goes out the window. So, let's stop overanylizing this and just enjoy this terrific music, like the Bird Diz Town Hall. I just wish something being recorded today would bring 'tears' to all your eyes and this much excitement. I'm all into digging the past, but there's a touch of necrophilia in some of these posts. ← Both Monk discographies I have refer to Keepnews and say he's just plain wrong. They say that the recording took place sometimes in July '57. ← IIRC there was an argument between Monk and bassist Wilbur Ware during the Half Note engagement, which led to Ware abruptly leaving the group, being replaced by Ahmed Abdul-Malik, who is on the Carnegie Hall recording. This would be further evidence for the Jazzland date being recorded before that concert. Quote
GA Russell Posted October 5, 2005 Report Posted October 5, 2005 I went to CD Universe today, and I see that Monk/Trane at Carnegie Hall is not only their #1 best seller, but that it is backordered. They sold out of it! Quote
Adam Posted October 6, 2005 Report Posted October 6, 2005 Thursday 10/6, 12:40 am Pacific Time Monk/Coltrane is #1 seller in music on Amazon. wow Quote
Gary Posted October 6, 2005 Report Posted October 6, 2005 I went to CD Universe today, and I see that Monk/Trane at Carnegie Hall is not only their #1 best seller, but that it is backordered. They sold out of it! ← I still haven't received the copy I pre-ordered from Amazon UK yet either. Quote
clifford_thornton Posted October 6, 2005 Report Posted October 6, 2005 I got a burned copy! It is really good, though Shadow Wilson is rather boring. Trane is obviously finding the music quite a challenge here, and as a lot of people (myself included) have been saying, it sounds like a much more mature Trane. I mean, when he was recording for Prestige around this time, his solos seemed to show very little of what they are here - you'd have to wait until his Atlantics (at least) to get this Trane again. Quote
Mark J Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 Don't get burned copies! This is a new release of important JAZZ music which is reasonably priced and is getting some notice from the general audience. Support this music by BUYING it to encourage more jazz releases. If you like your burned copy BUY a legit one. Then BUY another and give it to a friend. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 I got a burned copy! It is really good, though Shadow Wilson is rather boring. Trane is obviously finding the music quite a challenge here, and as a lot of people (myself included) have been saying, it sounds like a much more mature Trane. I mean, when he was recording for Prestige around this time, his solos seemed to show very little of what they are here - you'd have to wait until his Atlantics (at least) to get this Trane again. ← In defense of Mr Thornton, burned copies have been floating around for a while - I've had one for a couple of months. Understand they came from "inside" to run up the "street talk" about the release. On the other hand I found new respect for Shadow from this performance. I was not a big fan before but he seems to be a "great" Monk drummer from this gig! Quote
Soul Stream Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 ...I guess when you really want to hear something, a burned copy's alright....so next time this subject comes up.... Quote
JSngry Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 I was lucky enough to get one of those "leaked" burn copies, but I preordered from CDU asap. Never considered doing it any other way. Quote
Larry Kart Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 Another vote for Shadow Wilson. He's as inside Monk's music as any drummer ever was. I know -- there's Blakey, but Wilson's is a different way, much less dramatic and contrapuntal but very loving, subtle, and ESP-level anticipatory. When he steps forward, as on the upfront cymbal work on the two versions of "Epistrophy," it's like a perfect knight's move. Don't care at all for Frankie Dunlop. Quote
JSngry Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 Don't care at all for Frankie Dunlop. ← Fundamentally disagree with you on that one, but would love to hear your reasons anyway. Quote
slide_advantage_redoux Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 Kenny G putting himself on a track with Pops, now THAT'S necrophilia! ← Kenny G putting himself on a subway track, now that's entertainment! Quote
jazzbo Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 I'm a big fan of Shadow Wilson. AND Frankie Dunlop! Two different dancers to the Monk pied piper. Quote
Stereojack Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 Shadow's playing is the real revelation for me on this CD! My ears perked up when I heard "Epistrophy"! Quote
Evonce Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 Shadow fits the music as well as any other Monk drummer, but what's wrong with Dunlop? Monk's Dream? Monk in Tokyo? I think he's right in the pocket on those - great feel, judicious commentary. Quote
Larry Kart Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 About Dunlop, here's a passage from a review of "Criss Cross" that John Litweiler wrote in 1964: "Frankie Dunlop is certainly the major liability in this quartet. He is an exceptionally facile drummer, but it is amazing how a drummer can be so insensitive to Monk's playing. He has learned all the tricks from Roach, Blakey, Philley Joe, Elvin Jones, Baby Dodds, Joe Podunk and the rest of the gang, and he feels compelled to use every trick in his voluminous bag on every song he plays. It seems that way, anyway; good intentions do not a drummer make. John Ore is an asset to the group, in spite of his unwillingness to solo...; since he plays slightly on top of the beat, he keeps Show-off Dunlop from dragging the tempo." In tune with this, I'll add that one of Dunlop's typical "tricks," a kind of gulping-for-air, tickety-boom suspension, has always struck my as very lame and square, like a guy dancing around in a gold lame jumpsuit who has a really fat butt. It's related to and may be derived from a lick that Osie Johnson drove into the ground, but over time I've come to prefer Johnson to Dunlop. BTW, now that I think of it, the way Shadow Wilson plays with Monk may be close to the way Wilbur Campbell did. He and Wilbur Ware played a memorable engagement with Monk in Chicago at the Beehive in '54 or '55, which led to the Ware-Monk connection. Also, Campbell was within minutes of playing on the Riverside "Monk's Music" date when Blakey was very late in arriving. Quote
JSngry Posted October 7, 2005 Report Posted October 7, 2005 Not often that I so deeply disagree with both you and John, Larry, but this is such an occasion. Oh well! Quote
Stereojack Posted October 8, 2005 Report Posted October 8, 2005 Not often that I so deeply disagree with both you and John, Larry, but this is such an occasion. Oh well! ← I gotta second that, but I think we agree that it isn't worth arguing about. -_- Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 8, 2005 Report Posted October 8, 2005 (edited) Not often that I so deeply disagree with both you and John, Larry, but this is such an occasion. Oh well! ← I gotta second that, but I think we agree that it isn't worth arguing about. -_- ← Make it three. I'm with Larry and John. For me, Dunlop is as cute as a Hallmark. I never got the whole deal. Edited October 8, 2005 by Chuck Nessa Quote
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