Woody Shaw's train accident.

[Hardbopjazz]

Being in New York, and Woody Shaw being killed by a train, just wondered which subway line was he hit by that caused his death.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Hardbopjazz

[clifford_thornton]

I didn't know that was how he passed. What a way to go!

[Claude]

This page mentions the station:

http://www.shout.net/~jmh/articles/woody.html

[Hardbopjazz]

Neither did I. Found out here.

Dead Musicians

[catesta]

Dekalb Ave station in Brooklyn.

See details here

[catesta]

As usual, I'm too slow on the keyboard.

[Hardbopjazz]

Lost an arm too. That really sucks. Only 44. Man he left some real great music behind.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Hardbopjazz

[Jim Dye]

Dekalb? Probably the N or the R train.

[Rooster_Ties]

44? Damn, I never did the math before. I guess I always thought he was much closer to 50, or maybe even a bit past 50 when he died.

44's really young, in terms of his potentially having had 20 or 30 more great musical years ahead of him.

When push really comes to shove, Woody just might be my all-time-favorite horn player ever.

[Hardbopjazz]

44?  Damn, I never did the math before.    I guess I always thought he was much closer to 50, or maybe even a bit past 50 when he died.

44's really young, in terms of his potentially having had 20 or 30 more great musical years ahead of him.

When push really comes to shove, Woody just might be my all-time-favorite horn player ever.

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He's up there for me as well. In the top 3 Trumpet players in my book

[JSngry]

When push really comes to shove...

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An unfortunate choice of words for this particular thread...

[Rooster_Ties]

When push really comes to shove...

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An unfortunate choice of words for this particular thread...

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Crap. It was an absolutely unintended choice of words, I swear.

So, I gather then, there was some question about the circumstances of the subway accident??

Is there some backstory here that I'm missing??

Edited September 23, 2005 by Rooster_Ties

[sidewinder]

The Chet Baker bio has an interesting section about Woody Shaw's final year - I think he returned from Rotterdam to his parents back in the NYC area for care and attention during the final stage of the illness.

[JSngry]

So, I gather then, there was some question about the circumstances of the subway accident?? 

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You always hear rumors. Woody was not living a healthy lifestyle, if you know what I mean, and that just fueled speculation about what (or who) might have caused the fall.

I'd not worry about it, really. Nobody knows for sure, and the end result was the tragic same either way.

[JSngry]

Not to discount the possibility, but I'm under the impression that Woody's eyesight was never good to begin with. I'm sure that the nature of his habbits did nothing to delay any eventual blindness that his condition would have produced either.

[MartyJazz]

It has always been my understanding that Woody Shaw was a severe insulin dependent diabetic and that this illness was the basis for his steadily deteriorating eyesight which contributed to the horrible accident.

[ValerieB]

It has always been my understanding that Woody Shaw was a severe insulin dependent diabetic and that this illness was the basis for his steadily deteriorating eyesight which contributed to the horrible accident.

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this is also what i remember.

[Jazz Kat]

For the longest time I was thinking of Woody Herman. Man, seems like only yesterday he as recording Unity...

[Chuck Nessa]

It has always been my understanding that Woody Shaw was a severe insulin dependent diabetic and that this illness was the basis for his steadily deteriorating eyesight which contributed to the horrible accident.

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Yeah, Woody had eyesight problems for years. I remember one afternoon (around '77) with Woody, Maxine and Cuscuna in the office they shared. We had been talking for about half an hour before Woody said "Hey, I'm sorry Nessa, I didn't recognize you." Then he jumped up and offered his hand.

[AllenLowe]

in the early 1980s I was at a club in NYC called the Angry Squire -there was a guy stadning at the bar who looked real familiar - finally I said to him - "Do I know you?" He told me he was Frank Wright - he looked in incredibly good shape, muscular, happy, etc, and we talked for a little while - I was shocked when I heard he died so young -

[sheldonm]

It has always been my understanding that Woody Shaw was a severe insulin dependent diabetic and that this illness was the basis for his steadily deteriorating eyesight which contributed to the horrible accident.

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Yeah, Woody had eyesight problems for years. I remember one afternoon (around '77) with Woody, Maxine and Cuscuna in the office they shared. We had been talking for about half an hour before Woody said "Hey, I'm sorry Nessa, I didn't recognize you." Then he jumped up and offered his hand.

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damn.....that's crazy!

[Free For All]

For the longest time I was thinking of Woody Herman. 

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Woody Herman got run over by the IRS, not a train.

[Soul Stream]

Can't believe nobody went for the obvious "A-train" line. Guess it would be in bad taste.... But, at least for me, the question itself is a little morbid.

[John Tapscott]

For the longest time I was thinking of Woody Herman.  

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Woody Herman got run over by the IRS, not a train.

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Paul, did the guys on Woody's band generally know about Woody's problems with the the IRS, or did it only come out after he had left the road? (and then in even more detail after his death).

Thanks

[Free For All]

Paul, did the guys on Woody's band generally know about Woody's problems with the the IRS, or did it only come out after he had left the road? (and then in even more detail after his death).

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I think it was common knowledge to the musicians once it became an issue. A lot of the initial blame fell on a man named Abe Turchin who "managed" the band for quite awhile. He was withholding taxes from the band members' checks, but instead of turning this money over to the IRS he gambled it away. When Abe passed away it became Woody's responsibility, and I think Woody had been only marginally aware of the depth of this hole he was in. He was very loyal (to a fault) to those that worked for the band, and most likely looked the other way to some degree. He trusted his management because he wasn't as interested in the business end of things but didn't always put this trust in the best of people.

Even as late as when I was on the band (80s) there were problems, and I learned later that band manager Bill Byrne was frequently paying the guys out of his own pocket. Bill really held the band together during the last 20 years or so- it probably would have not lasted as long as it did.

Woody's age and health problems were catching up with him by the time I joined the band, and I can't help but think he continued to tour when he would liked to have been taking it easy. Unfortunately his debt to the IRS meant that they could seize assets at will, so he was better off staying on the road where he could at least stay in nice hotels, eat nice meals etc.

Did he bring this hardship upon himself? To a significant degree, yes.

Did he deserve the treatment he received in his last years? Definitely not IMHO.

Sorry for the off topic...........