upcoming Jelly Roll Morton set?

[Chuck Nessa]

Curious if Mr Lowe knows about the Cline guitar overdubs on this package.

[AllenLowe]

hmmm...heavy metal Morton - I like the sound of that -

[Chuck Nessa]

Why on earth would you equate guitar and heavy metal? Joe Guy is spinning!

[chris olivarez]

I heard some of this on "All Things Considered" morning edition and I may have to check it out sometime soon.

[AllenLowe]

just got it, and I'll tell you, the producers/sound people ought to be ashamed of themselves - the transfers/restoration are not HORRIBLE but they are mediocre and NOT AS GOOD as the original 4 volume Rounder. I am assuming that the CEDAR system has some new version of the de-hiss, and while they have not produced any of the tell-tale gurgling, it is just dead on top, and has lost the air - I just spent an hour A/B'ing the original Rounder and this and there is no comparison - even my kid can tell the difference. This is the kind of thing that is so disgusting because it was so avoidable - anyone who compared the two would have heard how much more presence and space is audible on the original Rounders.

There are two kinds of hiss reduction, EQ (where you basically just turn down the treble), and digital de-hissing, in which you actually alter the wave form. They've donr the latter, and while you can improve this new version by boosting the highs on your system, the most important, ambient frequencies are just GONE. It's like "restoring" a great painting and changing the color - I'm gonna call Szwed because this was completely unnecessary -

don't know if I should keep it anyway for the interviews; I'd rather just get a transcript as I honestly am repulsed by this thing -

sorry to be so negative - this kind of work just makes me nuts - because it was so completely unnecessary -

[Harold_Z]

So what's the best issue ?

The Swaggies ?

[AllenLowe]

I'll add that I posted my remarks on the Jazz Research line and got an email from someone who shall remain nameless but who was involved in transfers for the new project - he agreed completely, asked me if he could forward my remarks, and told me how much better it all sounded BEFORE it was "restored," also telling me that they had found some new safety takes that were also messed up -

Edited December 17, 2005 by AllenLowe

[AllenLowe]

Clem - Arhoolie used to use a guy who had No Noise/Sonic Solutions, and you are absolutely right about that stuff - I actually called the guy up once, and he kind of admitted that the original stuff had problems; some of the later things are better but still lacking in presence - I will email that guy you mention - Nevins, who I have some problems with personally (yikes he's a major pain, but that's another story) does excellent work, great transfers and just the right amount of noise reduction - beautifull stuff comes out of Yazoo -

another depressing thing is Document - there original stuff was noisy and sometimes a major mess - so since their reorganization they have remastered a lot of it - OUCH - full of that gurgling hiss-reduction. They've managed to make bad sound worse - the problem is that there are so many cheap hiss-reduction programs available now, which for about $100-$200 allow anybody and their grandma to become a sound restorer - though I shouldn't insult my grandma like this; even 10 years dead she could hear this stuff better than the way it comes out now -

[AllenLowe]

I have a bunch of the Swaggies, but have not heard them in years - will have to put them on this weekend. I'm inclined to print out the transcripts of the interviews that are on this new Morton, sell the thing, and hold onto the original Rounders - problem is that the patter and continuity is priceless, so I'll probably just keep it and suffer. But the alternative is to just get those original transcripts - apparently Lomax played with it a bit in the book and I'm hoping these are accurate. That plus the 4 volume original Rounders would not be a bad fix -

[tatifan]

I agree that the sound "restoration" on the new set leaves MUCH to be desired, however I hear 95% of the same basic approach on the previous 4 cd Rounders. And on those issues, there's not really more in the high frequency department, but what IS there is afflicted with a peculiar spikey distortion that I find more annoying than what comes out of the new set. Bottom line, for me both sound compromised, so there's no particular reason to stay away from the new set in deference to the old cds.

I'm curious to hear some of the Lp issues. Were these originally recorded on glass-based acetate masters? If so, coupled with the oddly distant mic placement, could account for some of what we hear or don't hear as far as surface noise and/or high frequencies.

[tatifan]

By the way, if anyone wants to read the transcripts without buying the set, try this link:

http://publicity.rounder.com/

scroll down to Jelly Roll Morton, and you can access the PDF file that is on disc 8 of the set.

[AllenLowe]

those odd distortions you refer to are high frequency spikes and other kinds of issues with the original disk eq - but the original Rounders have a nice sparkle, and space to them -

[jazzbo]

Nice find Tali! I like this collage a lot:

http://publicity.rounder.com/images/morton...th_Vignette.jpg

Man, I still cringe listening to Jelly on these discs. . . not sound I can ease in to, too scrubbed, but boy is it great to experience as far as education and entertainment!

[brownie]

After reading all this, I'll probably skip the box and stick to the vinyls I have (a mix of Swaggie and Classic Jazz Masters releases!)

[AllenLowe]

I am thinking that one can make copies of the narration from these new discs and just keep that, since, for me, bad restoration is not so big an issue for speech - on the other hand, there are plenty of bits and peices of music that are not on the original Rounder, so I may end up keeping the thing. I also may end up going onto my computer today to see how much I can bring back with digital EQ, and may report back later on this -

Edited December 18, 2005 by AllenLowe

[David Williams]

Found this on the net: a little bit from John RT Davies on his involvement with the Swaggie and CJM LPs, plus something from Bill Nowlin of Rounder Records.

HERE.

Looks like there's plenty more interesting stuff on that site.

I'm going to look for CJM LPs I'm missing (all but 7 and 8). The 1923 solos on the Retrieval LP are stunning - Jelly Roll Blues always has me filling in the rest of the band from the Red Hot Peppers recording.

[tatifan]

I finally tracked down that Retrieval cd of the '23 solos (only to find it's now available for half of what I paid at World Records!), and I must say I don't think the finished product is what I would have expected from Davies. I find it overfiltered on the top end......and it ends up about as muffled as the Milestone cd I set out to replace!

I think Retrieval subjected a number of his master tapes to excessive filtering, including the "King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band" set. They are still worth picking up, certainly, but the sound is quite different from Davies acoustic material heard on other labels (Timeless, Forte/Oracle), and ends up being a bit lifeless in comparison.

Anyone interested in the fabulous sounding (Davies engineered) Forte 3cd set of the Armstrong/Fletcher Henderson should run to the Roots and Rhythm web site. Even though it's OOP, they have a few copies (I just got mine!).

[brownie]

Found this on the net: a little bit from John RT Davies on his involvement with the Swaggie and CJM LPs, plus something from Bill Nowlin of Rounder Records.

HERE.

Thanks for providing the link. No wonder I could not detect any significiant difference in the mastering of the Morton LofC vinyls recordings released by Swaggie and CJM (I have a mix of them!). Which just keaves me with one question, why neither Swaggie nor CJM did bother to acknowledge the John RT Davies involvement with the mastering?

[David Williams]

Are the Swaggies and CJMs interchangeable then - same content on each volume?

[AllenLowe]

if you can find it, the absolute best remastering of the 1923 piano solos (even better than John RT) are on a Folkways LP - they were mastered by Carl Seltzer, now deceased, who did a lot of work for that label as well as Rosetta - amazingly good sound -

[David Williams]

I'll keep an eye out for the vinyl. There's a Folkways site HERE that looks like it's selling it on CD and tape.

[AllenLowe]

that's the one - you will never hear it in better sound than that -

John R.T. was a wonderfully nice guy and a great restorationist, bu I'm not crazy about a lot of his pre-digital stuff. His de-clicking technique was to record everything on open reel tape at 7 and 1/2 ips and remove the clicks on the surface of the tape - but this slow recording speed led, in my opinion, to some degredation of the high end - and though his older stuff is solid, it definitely loses some of these frequencies. In the CD age he began using CEDAR - this, plus the fact that he had an amazing collection of mint-condition 78s, and because he did great transfers, led to great results.

Edited January 28, 2006 by AllenLowe

[brownie]

Are the Swaggies and CJMs interchangeable then - same content on each volume?

I have a mix of them, eight volumes altogether. They are interchangeable...

[David Williams]

Thanks both.

[Tjazz]

Looks like this set got re-issued without the piano box. It's just a square box (kinda like Mosaic boxes), but priced cheaper this time. $72.96 with free shipping.

Deepdiscountcd

(the Deepdiscountcd.com description is wrong - it is no longer in a piano shaped box)

Edited August 25, 2006 by Tjazz