Gene Shaw Argo LPs

[brownie]

While going through old copies of Down Beat caught this item (in the September 23, 1966 issue), with a Chicago dateline:

'Former Charles Mingus trumpeter Gene Shaw recently revealed plans for the formation of a 10-piece jazz orchestra, Players Performances, which he described as 'a new concept in jazz ensemble that will draw upon certain of the premises of current improvisational theater'. Shaw said he will recruit orchestra members from the ranks of Chicago jazzmen. 'I don't expect many wil be equiped too readily to work within the new structure', he said, 'but I think that I've evolved a training method that will work. Basically, the idea is an extension of some of the precepts of Mingus' music I observed while a member of his group'. Currently Shaw and his wife are looking for a location on Chicago's near-north side to house the orchestra, as well as Shaw's philosophic studios, and an art and ceramics shop

Does anybody know if anything came out of this project?

[herbsgirl]

Yes, there's Debut in Blues, which features a sextet. This was the second of the three. I have it in two LPs, the original Argo, and a Chess reissue (the latter being one of those cheapo reissue Chess pressings). I don't think there's been a CD reissue.

I believe both Breakthrough and Debut in Blues feature Mr. Shaw's working band of the time. The repertoire is mostly originals by band members, and both the compositions and playing, by mostly unfamiliar names, are at a high level.

Three!!! What's the third one?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi I am Herb Wises daughter . My dad was the trombone player on Gene Shaws's Debut in Blues album . That record was recorded in the early 1960's and is still a crisp piece of work today. I am glad so many of you like this record. I was 5 at the time and remember the session musicians eating barbeque and playing the album over and over in the living room . I know this one by heart. . Ps. Herb Wise is 77 doing just great and looking it too. He and my mom Barbara Wise ( Skitch Hendersons) tour singer in Chicago live on a mountain top in beautiful Pennsylvania.

I am always greeted , when visiting, to hair blowin, ear piercing, great music as I pull up echoing off the property. Love it

[jazzbo]

Welcome dear lady, and thanks for that news!

[herbsgirl]

Debut in Blues has Herb Wise on trombone, Jay Peters on tenor sax, Jim Taylor on piano, Sid Robinson on bass and Jerold Donavon on drums, and was recorded on July 8, 1963.

According to the liner notes, Gene Shaw was from Detroit. He cites among his most memorable engagements two weeks in Detroit with Lester Young. His favorite trumpet player is Freddie Webster. Mr. Shaw plays a Student Olds trumpet.

Hi just thought I would tell you that my dad trombone player Herb Wise was the lead player on Debut in Blues with Gene Shaw. Herb is 77, still kickn and looking great. I also thought you would like a MYSTERY list of musicians on a great album that Roulette decided to omit the musician list in favor of Sarah Vaughn and Lalo Schfrin. The album is SWEET AND SASSY: The list is as follows Trumpets: John Howell, George Bean, Warren Kime. Trombones: Herb Wise, Paul Crumbaugh, Bill Corte. Reeds: Kenny Soderblom, Mike Simpson, Art Laurer, Andy Moss. Piano: Ken Harrity. Drums: Bob Cousins. Base : Mel Davis.

This was a 12 tune 4 hour session and truly Sarah Vaughn's best work bar none. This was balls to the wall , hair blowing work of genius..... Gotta have it and crank it up. Cindy VH. Ps. It was recorded in Chicago and used the Chicago Symphony strings..... Thank you for reading.

[herbsgirl]

Debut in Blues has Herb Wise on trombone, Jay Peters on tenor sax, Jim Taylor on piano, Sid Robinson on bass and Jerold Donavon on drums, and was recorded on July 8, 1963.

According to the liner notes, Gene Shaw was from Detroit. He cites among his most memorable engagements two weeks in Detroit with Lester Young. His favorite trumpet player is Freddie Webster. Mr. Shaw plays a Student Olds trumpet.

Hi just thought I would tell you that my dad trombone player Herb Wise was the lead player on Debut in Blues with Gene Shaw. Herb is 77, still kickn and looking great. I also thought you would like a MYSTERY list of musicians on a great album that Roulette decided to omit the musician list in favor of Sarah Vaughn and Lalo Schfrin. The album is SWEET AND SASSY: The list is as follows Trumpets: John Howell, George Bean, Warren Kime. Trombones: Herb Wise, Paul Crumbaugh, Bill Corte. Reeds: Kenny Soderblom, Mike Simpson, Art Laurer, Andy Moss. Piano: Ken Harrity. Drums: Bob Cousins. Base : Mel Davis.

This was a 12 tune 4 hour session and truly Sarah Vaughn's best work bar none. This was balls to the wall , hair blowing work of genius..... Gotta have it and crank it up. Cindy VH. Ps. It was recorded in Chicago and used the Chicago Symphony strings..... Thank you for reading.

[kh1958]

Did your Dad make any other small group recordings?

Debut in Blues has Herb Wise on trombone, Jay Peters on tenor sax, Jim Taylor on piano, Sid Robinson on bass and Jerold Donavon on drums, and was recorded on July 8, 1963.

According to the liner notes, Gene Shaw was from Detroit. He cites among his most memorable engagements two weeks in Detroit with Lester Young. His favorite trumpet player is Freddie Webster. Mr. Shaw plays a Student Olds trumpet.

Hi just thought I would tell you that my dad trombone player Herb Wise was the lead player on Debut in Blues with Gene Shaw. Herb is 77, still kickn and looking great. I also thought you would like a MYSTERY list of musicians on a great album that Roulette decided to omit the musician list in favor of Sarah Vaughn and Lalo Schfrin. The album is SWEET AND SASSY: The list is as follows Trumpets: John Howell, George Bean, Warren Kime. Trombones: Herb Wise, Paul Crumbaugh, Bill Corte. Reeds: Kenny Soderblom, Mike Simpson, Art Laurer, Andy Moss. Piano: Ken Harrity. Drums: Bob Cousins. Base : Mel Davis.

This was a 12 tune 4 hour session and truly Sarah Vaughn's best work bar none. This was balls to the wall , hair blowing work of genius..... Gotta have it and crank it up. Cindy VH. Ps. It was recorded in Chicago and used the Chicago Symphony strings..... Thank you for reading.

[kh1958]

Dustgroove's own label has now reissued Break Through on CD. It's currently available. Here's their review.

An amazing record -- bold, proud, and soulful -- a set that we'd easily trade for any classic early 60s session on Blue Note -- and for good reason too! This rare date is the debut as a leader for trumpeter Gene Shaw -- also known as Clarence Shaw in an earlier history of work with Charles Mingus -- and it's an incredible blend of hardbop grooving with sharper-edged modern jazz ideals -- an incredible blend that comes off beautifully on every track in the set! Shaw's probably best known for his late 50s work on the Charles Mingus albums Tijuana Moods, East Coasting, and Modern Jazz Symposium Of Music & Poetry -- but after a famous fight with Mingus, Clarence "hid out" in Chicago and worked under the name of Gene -- but soon made big waves on his own with tremendous work like this. (In the liner notes to the 1963 release of Tijuana Moods, in which Mingus says that he loved Shaw, but can't get in touch with him anymore!) Every aspect of the record is superb -- from the writing, to the rhythm section, to the incredibly well blown solos from trumpeter Shaw and tenorist Sherman Morrison -- who himself is another vastly-overlooked talent in jazz. The rest of the group features James Taylor on piano, Sidney Robinson on bass, and Bernard Martin on drums -- a totally crackling rhythm section who give most tunes a snapping sort of groove! Most tracks are originals, and titles include "Autum Walk", "Six Bits", "The Thing", "It's A Long Way", "AD's Blues", "Marj", and "Our Tune". © 1996-2008, Dusty Groove America, Inc.

[Chas]

What's the story on the Dusty Groove label ? Are their CDs mastered from the original tapes or from vinyl ? How do they sound ?

[kh1958]

This is the first one I've ordered.

http://blogs.chicagoreader.com/post-no-bil...-gets-groovier/

Dusty Groove gets groovier

by Peter Margasak on July 12th 2007 - 5:51 p.m.

Already a great record shop and mail-order service, Dusty Groove in Wicker Park recently expanded its business even further, becoming something of a record label. In the last couple of months it’s released five out-of-print albums on CD, all of them licensed from Universal Music. If any retailer is in a position to start a label, it's Dusty Groove. The store sells tons of second-hand vinyl all over the world, so it has a pretty good idea how much demand there is for a particular item, and owner Rick Wojcik routinely tracks down releases from all over the planet—Brazil, France, South Korea—so he’s got a pretty good handle on what’s available.

The first batch of releases, unsurprisingly, appeals to a very particular niche market, and Wojcik considers it as a test run to determine whether it's worth doing more in the future. An album like Seasons by keyboardist Pete Jolly (a jazz-fusion record marked by a wide array of electric piano, organs, and Wurlitzer) is the kind of music only a crate-digger could love, but titles like Funky Skull by Melvin Jackson (who plays an almost psychedelic, effects-heavy upright bass over taut, heavy grooves) and The Rubaiyat of Dorothy Ashby (a trippy and funky jazz session inspired by the work of Omar Khayyam that features Ashby on untypical string instruments like harp and koto) deliver a broader, if still limited, appeal.

To me the new label is already a success, if for no other reason than its reissue of Força Bruta, a brilliant 1970 album by Brazil's Jorge Ben and the first of his many collaborations with the funky soul group Trio Mocoto. Ben's ability to transplant samba tunes into deeply soulful, often funky settings was simply stunning. Gorgeous string arrangements swaddle many of the tunes, but it’s Ben’s characteristic acoustic-guitar riffs and Mocoto's jacked-up grooves that make the record tick. Ben never had the greatest set of pipes, but few musicians have turned an imperfect voice into such a valuable asset, reinforcing the rhythmic agility of his songs with pin-point phrasing, surprising intervallic leaps, and a plaintive kind of moan.

I was asked to write some liner notes for the reissue, but I ended up passing on the offer, partly because information about Ben’s career and development is practically non-existent in the States, aside from thumbnail bios that only offer the slightest insight. It’s astonishing, really, that Ben—one of the most successful, deep, and influential musicians to emerge from Brazil in the last four decades—hasn't been the subject of more substantial analysis. Hell, a bunch of his classics from the late 60s and early 70s remain unavailable. I sure hope that if Dusty Groove continues its reissue program, more albums by Jorge Ben will see the light of day.

[Clunky]

Rarely seen photo of Clarence Gene Shaw.

This is not an original cover for this LP, btw! This cover is from an Italian reissue pressed in the 1980s.

I got this Italian reissue quite recently along with an Argo original edition of Breakthrough . Both are very exciting dates and highly recommended. It's a wonder that they're not better known. The Italian edition of Debut In Blues has some slight speed instability ( sound occasionally a little wobbly). Anyone know if that's present on the original ? Most Argo LPs I've come across are defective in some way. Generally poor pressings.

[kh1958]

Rarely seen photo of Clarence Gene Shaw.

This is not an original cover for this LP, btw! This cover is from an Italian reissue pressed in the 1980s.

I got this Italian reissue quite recently along with an Argo original edition of Breakthrough . Both are very exciting dates and highly recommended. It's a wonder that they're not better known. The Italian edition of Debut In Blues has some slight speed instability ( sound occasionally a little wobbly). Anyone know if that's present on the original ? Most Argo LPs I've come across are defective in some way. Generally poor pressings.

I have a mono original of Debut in Blues that sounds fine and an '80s reissue on Chess that is poor in pressing and sound. Perhaps the latter is the source of the Italian reissue?

[rpklich]

Jay Peters played regularly with fellow Chicago tenor player E Parker McDougal in the the 70's and early 80s when Jay died (I'm not sure of the exact date). I heard him a few times with McDougal he was a good tenor player in Chicago tradition. McDougal and Jay were a tenor duo in the Jaws/Griffin, Gordon/Grey mode. Jay's also on a few cuts on McDougal's first LP. McDougal self produced a couple of lps and both are worth seeking out.

[sidewinder]

Rarely seen photo of Clarence Gene Shaw.

This is not an original cover for this LP, btw! This cover is from an Italian reissue pressed in the 1980s.

I got this Italian reissue quite recently along with an Argo original edition of Breakthrough . Both are very exciting dates and highly recommended. It's a wonder that they're not better known. The Italian edition of Debut In Blues has some slight speed instability ( sound occasionally a little wobbly). Anyone know if that's present on the original ? Most Argo LPs I've come across are defective in some way. Generally poor pressings.

I have a mono original of Debut in Blues that sounds fine and an '80s reissue on Chess that is poor in pressing and sound. Perhaps the latter is the source of the Italian reissue?

I saw a copy of that very Italian reissue LP in a bin a while ago. Thanks for clarifyine re: sound quality (needle drop?)

Edited September 15, 2009 by sidewinder

[Clunky]

Not sure if it's a needle drop, my entire system is dismantled at the moment , so I won't be able check for some weeks . I think I paid around £6 which was fine. The sound isn't a major problem when it's such a good session.

[kh1958]

I was hoping that dustygroove would do a proper CD reissue of this one also.

[sidewinder]

Not sure if it's a needle drop, my entire system is dismantled at the moment , so I won't be able check for some weeks . I think I paid around £6 which was fine. The sound isn't a major problem when it's such a good session.

This one was £5 so if it is still there when I next visit I'll pick it up.

[Stereojack]

Most Argo LPs I've come across are defective in some way. Generally poor pressings.

I don't know how many original Argo LP's you've heard, but I've got many of them, and generally I consider them to be quality pressings. When the company changed hands in the early 1970's, the quality did go downhill. I've got original pressings of all three Shaw LP's, and they sound fine.

[Clunky]

Most Argo LPs I've come across are defective in some way. Generally poor pressings.

I don't know how many original Argo LP's you've heard, but I've got many of them, and generally I consider them to be quality pressings. When the company changed hands in the early 1970's, the quality did go downhill. I've got original pressings of all three Shaw LP's, and they sound fine.

I stand corrected. I was referring to more recent Argo issues.

[johnlitweiler]

While going through old copies of Down Beat caught this item (in the September 23, 1966 issue), with a Chicago dateline:

'Former Charles Mingus trumpeter Gene Shaw recently revealed plans for the formation of a 10-piece jazz orchestra, Players Performances, which he described as 'a new concept in jazz ensemble that will draw upon certain of the premises of current improvisational theater'. Shaw said he will recruit orchestra members from the ranks of Chicago jazzmen. 'I don't expect many wil be equiped too readily to work within the new structure', he said, 'but I think that I've evolved a training method that will work. Basically, the idea is an extension of some of the precepts of Mingus' music I observed while a member of his group'. Currently Shaw and his wife are looking for a location on Chicago's near-north side to house the orchestra, as well as Shaw's philosophic studios, and an art and ceramics shop

Does anybody know if anything came out of this project?

This had to be approximately the time that Gene Shaw had his nightclub, IIRC the Old(e) East Inn on Stony Island Avenue, on the South Side. It was popular with musicians for a time and then Shaw gave it up and dropped out of music again.

A very nice guy and a sweet melodic player. He believed in the philosophies of Gurdjieff. The rumor was that as part of his religious beliefs, he was required to give up what he loved the most, which explained why he gave up the trumpet and dropped out of music on various occasions.

When he came back again, late 1960s or in the '70s, he led a group with an organ at a North Wells St. club and I reviewed him in Down Beat. A year or 2 later he was out of music and back in Michigan again.

Re Rpklich's post: McDougal was a terrifically swinging tenor saxophonist, more directly connected to Prez than other Chicago tenorists. Yes, those 2 LPs of his are gems, too bad he didn't make more.

[ghost of miles]

John, I came across that review from '68 while working on a Night Lights show. Don DeMichael also wrote an extensive profile of Shaw for Downbeat in 1964.

[herbsgirl]

Thanks for the notice. I just ordered them. Will turn them into cds if I can.

I just read this post . Herb Wise (trombone )is my dad and he is still alive and kicking and practicing daily . I remember when he recordd this and know every note of this record. I would love a copy of the CD'd version. Dad has the original (Not for sale version) and is a part of the Wise collection . Thank You for the 2005 post ... Cindy Wise VanHorn

[kh1958]

Jay Peters played regularly with fellow Chicago tenor player E Parker McDougal in the the 70's and early 80s when Jay died (I'm not sure of the exact date). I heard him a few times with McDougal he was a good tenor player in Chicago tradition. McDougal and Jay were a tenor duo in the Jaws/Griffin, Gordon/Grey mode. Jay's also on a few cuts on McDougal's first LP. McDougal self produced a couple of lps and both are worth seeking out.

I stumbled across some more Jay Peters on Lionel Hampton's Columbia Album from 1954, Wailin' at the Trianon. The album does not list the full band personnel, but Lionel Hampton's notes specifically mention Jay Peters as the featured tenor soloist, and he takes several excellent solos on the album.

[prestontw]

Hi,

Finally! Here's a transcript of my long interview with Gene Shaw's daughter, Ms. Leah Mondino

(w/rare and personal photos of him and his family)

HERE

best

t

[kh1958]

Very interesting. Thanks.

[JSngry]

Superb!