***Joe Henderson***

[cannonball-addict]

Just listening to "The Kicker" once again tonight. Gotta be one of Joe's greatest "unsung" albums. Some REALLY solid tunes and the group of Grachan Moncur, Kenny Barron, Ron Carter, Louis Hayes is first rate. The only weak link is Mike Lawrence on trumpet, who is competent, but not of the caliber of the rest of the group (as a soloist, that is).

The Elvin Campbell engineering is up there with RVG's engineering on those early CTI albums ("Red Clay", "Straight Life", etc.).

If you don't have this........get it.

Gotta disagree. I don't have anything approaching a "complete" Joe Henderson collection, but out of ten CDs of him as a leader, this one is easily the weakest.

Guy

His playing is not as confident as some of the other sessions mentioned here. Albeit there are a few memorable heads from this one that have become standard jam session fare.

If anything, Joe's tunes have pretty much been universally accepted as classics or staples in the practicing musician's daily/nightly vocabulary. Like Bird's or Monk's. Yet he doesn't share the name recognition that the latter two do because he was that background sideman for so many years.

Has anyone counted how many original BN sides he appears on besides his own stuff. I'm sure some of the rhythm section regulars outdo him in this respect (such as Butch Warren) but he is certainly up there as a dependable session guy.

P.S. My personal favorite is his playing on Kenny Dorham's "Una Mas."

Edited November 20, 2004 by cannonball-addict

[Guest akanalog]

i think "black narcissus" is the most underrated album in the henderson canon.

interesting euro rhythm section on most tracks (who is it? kuhn, humair and someone on bass i can't remember right now), some tasteful yet out of place synth by dr. pat, and one cool duet between henderson and jack dejohnette with henderson playing some wicked moog bass.

though as a guy who generally likes this sort of thing-i find "black miracle" to be very disappointing, even on it's own terms.

does anyone hear a weird edit on "the elements"? the second song i believe, at the end i keep hearing this nasty edit but it might be my imagination.

Edited November 20, 2004 by akanalog

[JSngry]

i think "black narcissus" is the most underrated album in the henderson canon.

interesting euro rhythm section on most tracks (who is it? kuhn, humair and someone on bass i can't remember right now), some tasteful yet out of place synth by dr. pat, and one cool duet between henderson and jack dejohnette with henderson playing some wicked moog bass.

Agreed.

J.F. Jenny Clark on bass, iirc.

Haden's on a tune or two as well.

[DMP]

Someone mentioned his "Jazz Communicators" group a few pages ago. Don't think it was ever recorded as a group, although obviously there are many examples of the 2 leaders playing on record during that time. When I heard the group, Kenny Barron was the pianist, and I think Herbie Lewis might have been the bass player. The only tunes I recall were "Backlash" and "Pensativa."

And, speaking of unrecorded Henderson, is there anything with him in the Miles Davis group? And Blood, Sweat & Tears?

[JSngry]

I'm not sure that Joe got past the rehearsal stage w/BST, but I could be wrong.

Either way, it was a very short-lived relationship.

[BFrank]

Has anyone counted how many original BN sides he appears on besides his own stuff. I'm sure some of the rhythm section regulars outdo him in this respect (such as Butch Warren) but he is certainly up there as a dependable session guy.

That's one of the nice things about the OOP Joe Henderson BN box. It includes lots of sideman dates - Pete LaRoca, Bobby Hutcherson, etc. ...

[sidewinder]

That box is an absolute killer - gets lots of spins from me. Great to hear the Freddie Roach and Duke P material in there too. Over the years its been the catalyst which has got me seeking out a whole host of LPs for which Henderson is a key sideman.

I think at one time the BMG club were offering it for around $15-20 dollars too..

[pryan]

Picked up this one today:

[BFrank]

That box is an absolute killer - gets lots of spins from me. Great to hear the Freddie Roach and Duke P material in there too. Over the years its been the catalyst which has got me seeking out a whole host of LPs for which Henderson is a key sideman.

I think at one time the BMG club were offering it for around $15-20 dollars too..

That's probably where I got it.

It is a great jumping off point for a ton of BN stuff......you're right.

[Templejazz]

I haven't been here in a while but I figured I'd revisit and revive a topic I started when I was pondering on one of my favorite front line duos, Joe and Woody. I like the Lighthouse recording. Unity will also remain I think my favorite recording of these guys.

What other pairings of Joe and Woody are there? Cape Verdean Blues comes to mind.

Bg

[Free For All]

Hey TJ, welcome back!! Good to hear from you! Howz things?

A couple good Joe and Woody outings occupy the JoeHen Milestone box- "Live at the Lighthouse" and "In Pursuit of Blackness".

The Joe box has recently been discussed here.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Free For All

[BFrank]

FREEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!

[John L]

I haven't been here in a while but I figured I'd revisit and revive a topic I started when I was pondering on one of my favorite front line duos, Joe and Woody. I like the Lighthouse recording. Unity will also remain I think my favorite recording of these guys.

What other pairings of Joe and Woody are there? Cape Verdean Blues comes to mind.

Bg

Joe and Woody live was usually something special. I had the pleasure in growing up and living in the SF Bay Area in the 70s where they often performed together.

Another classic match up is on Larry Young's Unity.

[btownsurvivor]

Fortunately, there's quite a bit of Joe and Wood :

http://www.woodyshaw.com/discography/disco_06.htm

I can vouch for all of it except for The Paris Reunion Band stuff (which those in the know have told me is weak so I never scooped it up).

Those of us who frequented Keystone Korner in the late 70s early 80s might remember that Joe and Wood were often on the bandstand together, but I don't think any recordings came out of it. Serious bummer. Does anyone know Todd Barkan ? Maybe there is something in a vault/desk-drawer/attic/glove-compartment somewhere.

Horace Silver, "Cape Verdean Blues", "The Natives Are Restless Tonight"

Larry Young, "Unity"

Woody, "In The Beginning", "Cassandranite", "Last of the Line", "Dark Journey" (1, 2, 3, 5) -- anyone know what the original release was ?

Joe and Woody, "Jazz Patterns"

Joe, "Live At The Lighthouse" / "If You're Not Part of the Solution, You're Part of the Problem"

Buddy Terry, "Pure Dynamite"

Bobby Hutcherson, "Cirrus"

Woody, "Rosewood"

The Paris Reunion Band, "For Klook", "Jazz Buhne Berlin 1988", "Live at Theaterhaus, Stuttgart, W. Germany"

Neil Swainson, "49th Parallel"

Edited November 11, 2007 by btownsurvivor

[BFrank]

Todd is the artistic director at Dizzy's Lincoln Center in NYC. I didn't know that until I saw him there earlier this year when I saw Hank & Joe. I went up to him afterwards and tried to talk about the old days at KK, but he didn't seem too interested in talking.

[btownsurvivor]

Just purchased "In 'N Out". Haven't listened yet, but the front art reads :

JOE HENDERSON

Kenny Dorham Richard Davis Elvin Jones etc.

Well, the et cetera happens to be none other than McCoy Tyner ...

Was McCoy really no more than an unfinished sentence back in 1964 ?

[analogak]

do you think tyner was some sort of slut, throwing himself towards whatever record company wanted him? no he was a classy guy and he would sign a proper contract.

Edited November 17, 2007 by dumpy mama

[Daniel A]

To be more precise, Tyner had a contract with Impulse at the time.

[JSngry]

[btownsurvivor]

McCoy's name is on the backside credits and notes.

Were contracts in early 60s written to disallow frontside billing because of the way albums were advertised and/or displayed in stores ?

Does this practice still occur today, and to what extent is it relevant ? For example, for downloadable MP3s, does anyone know of any cases where a sideman artist's name is not present on the frontside art, is not allowed to be advertised in online promotional literature, but is included somewhere in the downloadable art ?

If this practice still does occur, I'm not sure how effective it could be with today's prevalence of listener reviews that "tell all".

Edited November 18, 2007 by btownsurvivor

[clifford_thornton]

To be more precise, Tyner had a contract with Impulse at the time.

Right, that was going to be my response also.

He then signed with BN and, once that contract ran out, went to Milestone.

[Big Al]

Driving back from Austin yesterday, listening to disc three of the Milestone box (the Lighthouse stuff) and hear, for the very first time, the track "If You're Not Part of the Solution, You're Part of the Problem," crank that mother and floor it..... DAMN!!!! Whatta funky tune!

[Rooster_Ties]

I'm not sure that Joe got past the rehearsal stage w/BST, but I could be wrong.

Either way, it was a very short-lived relationship.

Found a quote earlier tonight that implies that maybe there's one Blood Sweat & Tears tune with Joe that got recorded, and maybe a couple of Joe's tunes(!) they actually rehearsed....

I just posted this on the Steve Hoffman board, and here 'tis again...

[Rooster_Ties]

Well, gosh golly, maybe there IS some evidence of BS&T with Joe Henderson...

http://www.rdrop.com/users/rickert/fielder.html

Jim Fielder Interview (by David Callow 10/99)

Jim was one of the founding members of Blood, Sweat, and Tears, playing on the first six BS&T albums. Since then he has played with a large number of groups and has appeared on a variety of different recordings.

Q: How were Joe Henderson and Bobby Doyle recruited?

A: Bobby Colomby introduced Joe, he probably knew him from his early jazz connections. We did not know Bobby Doyle at all, but we had caught his album, and loved what we heard. We invited him to audition.

Q: Why did they not remain ?

A: With Joe, it was musical differences. With Bobby Doyle, he was best suited for smaller, more intimate audiences. The partings were amicable, though.

Q: Had the Doyle, Halligan, Henderson line-up continued, in what ways do you think the music would have differed compared to "New Blood" and “No Sweat” ?

A: That line-up could have originated more of its own repertoire. Who knows, maybe that creativity might have persuaded Dick Halligan to remain.

Q: Besides “Salty Tears” were there any other tracks recorded which also featured Doyle, Halligan, and Henderson?

A: Maybe about three. Two were Henderson originals, “No Me Esqueca” (meaning “Don’t Forget Me”), and possibly one other. There was also a song titled “Harbor Lady”. I do not know the composer, but Bobby Doyle brought it along. We actually got as far as rehearsing these.

Now, the questioner says "recorded" and also mentions "Salty Tears" (as if it's been released, and implying that Joe's on that one). But then Jim Fielder only says "rehearsed" (implying that everything in his answer was rehearsed, but NOT recorded -- although the beginning of his answer implies that all three were recorded).

I'm afraid I don't know squat about BS&T -- is "Salty Tears" something that has been released from this era??

Also, FWIW, I'm pretty darn sure that "No Me Esqueca" (Don't Forget Me) is a later alternate title for one of Joe's very best known tunes, "

from his very first BN album (and damn near a jazz standard, by most measures).

[trpt2345]

Joe of course was one of those special players, an original, a sound like no other. Mode for Joe was my first,and since I've grabbed everything I could get my hands on. He had a hard time keeping a steady band together but managaed toplay and record with many greats: Dave Holland and Al Foster, Charlie Haden, George Mraz, Bill Stewart. I liked him in bass-drum trios. A good writer too, I do Afro-Centric and No Me Esqueca with my kiddies.

Trpt2345