Bluegrass Music

[Brownian Motion]

Bluegrass Music Begins to Pique a Fancy

By RYAN LENZ, Associated Press WriterFri Sep 9, 3:52 PM ET

Bluegrass music has taken a long road to the ivory tower from its hardscrabble roots in the rural South.

But 50 years after mandolin player Bill Monroe, often credited as the father of bluegrass, broke from country traditions at the Grand Ole Opry and melded breakneck instrumentals with unique melodies, academics are coming around.

A symposium that began Thursday at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green, Ky., brings together scholars from 17 states and three countries to discuss bluegrass and why its fast pickin' banjos have been so slow to take root in academia.

A dozen or more universities have folk studies programs that include classes on bluegrass, but outside of a folk revival in the 1960s that led some to seriously look at the subject, most academics haven't embraced the genre as they have jazz and blues.

"Poor rural whites are in a sense the last examined minority," said Erika Brady, a professor of folk studies at Western Kentucky who helped organize the symposium. "It's a group that it's taken the academic world a long time to get around to."

It is impossible to ignore social groups and race when asking about the development of bluegrass studies, Brady said, and too often there are misconceptions that bluegrass' early practitioners were backward country folk incapable of finesse.

Bluegrass rose from the musical traditions of the downtrodden — Southern workers, farmers and families who took to song in hard times. Monroe, a native of Rosine, Ky., about 40 miles northwest of Bowling Green, blended the blues, ragtime and folk songs he heard while growing up to fuel his driving performances on the mandolin at the Opry in Nashville.

Monroe was already a staple star, and few identified the break from country as bluegrass.

But historians point to Monroe's band the Blue Grass Boys as the definitive moment when colliding influences gave way to something just as new as jazz was at the turn of the century in New Orleans.

Thoughtful study was bound to come, said banjo player Bela Fleck, whose style crosses the distinctly American traditions of bluegrass, folk and rock and has garnered thousands of modern music fans.

"It's like music theory, which was created to study what already was. Bluegrass exists, and since it's been around long enough, there are people who want to talk about it," Fleck said.

Just as there are a thousand definitions for jazz, all of which are correct in some regard, bluegrass has perplexed fans and musicians who know it when they hear it but can't give hard rules for how to play it.

The symposium also will address the decades-long pursuit of chasing down that definition of bluegrass, which drew from many influences like blues and jazz and remains just as hard to pin into a canned phrase.

Still, it's a bittersweet moment for the faithful to move bluegrass from jam sessions to the lecture hall, said Paul Wells, director of the Center for Popular Music at Middle Tennessee State University and a speaker at the symposium.

While music that isn't embraced by the universities can be trivialized — it's not culture with a capital C — anything that's worthwhile eventually will be examined. Whether it's art or music, people want to understand what they like, Wells said.

"Some people think that it's overintellectualizing a grass-roots music. But why not give it full attention?" he said. "It can be some of the most hair-raising, emotional music you ever want to hear."

Copyright © 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.

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[JSngry]

Them cats can play, make no mistake!

[Brownian Motion]

Them cats can play, make no mistake!

←

The academics really missed the boat on bluegrass music. Better late than never, I suppose, but opportunities to learn much about such interesting influences as Arnold Schultz (a rural African-American country guitarist who mentored teenaged Bill Monroe) are pretty much lost now.

[Free For All]

I remember reading somewhere, maybe here, that this was some good bluegrass.

[Brownian Motion]

I remember reading somewhere, maybe here, that this was some good bluegrass.

←

I remember recomending that one some time ago. The featured musicians on this include Vassar Clements, David Grisman, and Tony Rice, and they really wail.

[Joe G]

I've never heard of Keith, but the others you mention are all childhood heroes of mine.

[Neal Pomea]

A dozen or more universities have folk studies programs that include classes on bluegrass, but outside of a folk revival in the 1960s that led some to seriously look at the subject, most academics haven't embraced the genre as they have jazz and blues.

They left out gospel. Gospel singing is integral to bluegrass, IMO. I think Bill Monroe was a genius gospel song writer, like Albert E. Brumley, and his stuff when Jimmy Martin was a Blue Grass Boy is unsurpassed!

"I hear a voice calling, it must be our Lord!"

Shivers...

Then there's the Stanley Brothers doing Rank Stranger, etc.

Edited September 11, 2005 by It Should be You

[mjzee]

So I was trying to find a bluegrass bulletin board without real success, but then Google revealed a bluegrass thread on All About Jazz, and I recognized many of the posters, so I thought I'd resurrect this thread. My post, alas, is about an obscure album by an obscure band (I know, that's red meat to you guys!). It's a promo copy I got in 1972. It's on Raccoon, the band is High Country, and the name of the album is "Dreams." It's something I could not put into any sort of context way back when, but now I'm pretty familiar with the structure and sound of the form, if not with some of the "why's." Anyway, this is a pretty good, straight ahead bluegrass album, performed by a bunch of long haired hippies. The names of some of the people in the band sound familiar, and I was wondering if anyone knew what some of these guys went on to do.

Butch Waller

Chris Boutwell

Ed Neff

Bruce Nemerov

Elon Feiner

Album was produced and recorded by Banana. I did recognize one other name: the credits state "Thanks to Sneed Hearn for 2nd fiddle on Virginia Waltz." I think he played on a Little Feat album.

The songs were written by the usual suspects: Monroe, Haggard, and the ubiquitous Trad. One cool songwriting credit is McCoury; guess he was making waves way back then.

Anyway, if anyone can contribute any info, it would be appreciated. And feel free to extend this into a general bluegrass thread.

[alocispepraluger102]

has the internet bluegrass station in d.c. shut down?

i remember playing "paul bley and peacocks not one, not two...." for one of my hardcore mandolin playing friends. i thought he would really be impressed.

after one of the solo bass pieces he remarked "when do they start?"

[Brownian Motion]

So I was trying to find a bluegrass bulletin board without real success, but then Google revealed a bluegrass thread on All About Jazz, and I recognized many of the posters, so I thought I'd resurrect this thread. My post, alas, is about an obscure album by an obscure band (I know, that's red meat to you guys!). It's a promo copy I got in 1972. It's on Raccoon, the band is High Country, and the name of the album is "Dreams." It's something I could not put into any sort of context way back when, but now I'm pretty familiar with the structure and sound of the form, if not with some of the "why's." Anyway, this is a pretty good, straight ahead bluegrass album, performed by a bunch of long haired hippies. The names of some of the people in the band sound familiar, and I was wondering if anyone knew what some of these guys went on to do.

Butch Waller

Chris Boutwell

Ed Neff

Bruce Nemerov

Elon Feiner

Album was produced and recorded by Banana. I did recognize one other name: the credits state "Thanks to Sneed Hearn for 2nd fiddle on Virginia Waltz." I think he played on a Little Feat album.

The songs were written by the usual suspects: Monroe, Haggard, and the ubiquitous Trad. One cool songwriting credit is McCoury; guess he was making waves way back then.

Anyway, if anyone can contribute any info, it would be appreciated. And feel free to extend this into a general bluegrass thread.

I can't comment on your album or on the musicians you've named, but Bluegrass is certainly worthy of a thread in a jazz board, since bluegrass and jazz share some characteristics.

The most important thing I know about the music is that in the 1970s, after years of changing only incrementally, bluegrass developed an avante garde (Tony Trischka, David Grisman, Tony Rice, Bela Fleck, Mark O'Connor, and others). The second most important thing I know is that Django Reinhardt and the Hot Club of France had a substantial impact on many bluegrass musicians, and that these musicians, unlike the slavish devotees of Reinhardt who identify themselves as "gypsy jazz" musicians, used Reinhardt and Grappely as a starting point, not an ending point.

[jazztrain]

Brownian Motion wrote:

>>>

The names of some of the people in the band sound familiar, and I was wondering if anyone knew what some of these guys went on to do.

Butch Waller

Chris Boutwell

Ed Neff

Bruce Nemerov

Elon Feiner

>>>

Just finished a project, so I have a few minutes to see what's out there before starting something else. Here goes, since you asked:

Here's a link to a page with some information on the album you reference: http://www.discogs.com/High-Country-Dreams/release/1546513

Here's a link to a page with information on another album by the group: http://www.discogs.com/High-Country-High-C...release/1545369

Butch Waller is the leader of "High Country": http://highcountrybluegrass.com/

So, "High Country" still survives after all these years.

Chris Boutwell plays (or played) with the "High Lonesome Bluegrass Band": http://www.highlonesomeband.com/AboutUs.asp

Ed Neff is the leader of "Ed Neff & Friends": http://www.edneff.com/about-ed.html

Here's some information on Bruce Nemerov: http://brucenemerov.pbworks.com/

Elon Feiner is a bit more problematical. One site indicates he was on the two High Country albums referenced above and that he also used the name "Lonny Feiner." Another site provides the following:

"Elon Feiner was the bassist for High Country (Butch Waller’s bluegrass band) when they released their 1972 album on Raccoon Records. Lonnie Feiner has since moved to Portland, OR and continues to play bluegrass, sometimes under the name Eldon Finger. "

There is a Elon Feiner in Portland, Oregon. Probably the same guy. Or the same four guys.

That's enough, lest I be accused of being a "High Country" stalker.

Where should I send my bill?

[BeBop]

So I was trying to find a bluegrass bulletin board without real success...

http://www.bluegrassworks.com/forum/

[mjzee]

Where should I send my bill?

No, really, great work! Thanks!

[Drew Peacock]

I used to love the Nitty Gritty Dirt band. It's been over 20 years since I played their recordings. Thinking back to their sound, I'm not sure if I consider them bluegrass or classic country music.

[Chuck Nessa]

Don't matter.

[thedwork]

Don't matter.

i'll assume that's in reference to your own post.

mjzee: cool that you bumped a bluegrass thread. i haven't heard the band you were asking about, but i've recently written two reviews that relate to bluegrass (one's a cd review, the other a 'bookazine' review'):

The centerpiece of the bookazine is its piece on mandolin superhero Chris Thile by Seth Mnookin (author of "Feeding The Monster," "Hard News," and contributing editor at "Vanity Fair"). It’s a wide-ranging piece covering his precocious beginnings, time spent with the popular group Nickel Creek, marriage and divorce, and more recently his own more adventurous group The Punch Brothers. There’s also a bit of condensed history on the evolution of bluegrass.

Thile and his friends Mark O’Connor, Bela Fleck, and Edgar Meyer (among others) have been steadily amassing an amazing body of work that rather organically, and at times dizzyingly, combines elements of bluegrass, jazz, and classical idioms. "Fourth Stream" anyone? Thile would argue that it’s all one stream really, and he’d be right. You’ll hear traditional bluegrass, Radiohead, and Steve Reich influences in The Punch Brothers. As is normally the case, there is a strong resistance to change. From Mnookin’s piece: “During a show at a folk festival in Scotland, a fan shouted out, 'Play some fucking bluegrass!' in the middle of a particularly quiet section of [Thile‘s original far-ranging composition] 'The Blind Leaving The Blind.'" This has shades of Bob Dylan’s hostile reception at the 1965 Newport Folk Festival (and subsequent shows) as some kind of folk music apostate for not playing the music more ‘purely.’ Chris Thile: Bluegrass Apostate. Mnookin also rightly draws a line connecting Thile and his fellow Nonesuch labelmate pianist Brad Mehldau for their eclectic influences (combining pop, classical, and jazz) and precocious talents.

see full review here:

No Depression Bookazine

and the CD:

In our current somewhat post-genre era, the best label one could grope for would be “newgrass singer/songwriter.” And that’d be pretty close... The most in the pocket bluegrass tunes on the CD are Jarosz’s originals “Mansinneedof” and “Fischer Store Road.” Both are high energy, bright and modern leaning instrumentals with room for the tradition of improvisation that runs deep through bluegrass. These tunes are somewhat in the vein of modern explorers like Thile, Bela Fleck, and Edgar Meyer.

see full review here:

Song Up In Her Head

Edited June 27, 2009 by thedwork

[Jazzmoose]

Don't matter.

i'll assume that's in reference to your own post.

Interesting. I'd assume it refers to labels not mattering when it comes to music, but I'm weird that way...

[alocispepraluger102]

Butch Waller is the leader of "High Country": http://highcountrybluegrass.com/

So, "High Country" still survives after all these years.

[thedwork]

Interesting. I'd assume it refers to labels not mattering when it comes to music, but I'm weird that way...

that sounds good.

sounded to me like a smug swipe at bluegrass music. i'd've needed a little more to get the meaning you got from the two word 'don't matter' post in the context of this thread. but i'm weird that way...

[mjzee]

It’s a wide-ranging piece covering his precocious beginnings, time spent with the popular group Nickel Creek,

I do like Nickel Creek, have one of their albums, and I like that they sound like fresh-faced kids. Another fave is Alison Krause, who I think produced the Nickel Creek album.

[Chuck Nessa]

Interesting. I'd assume it refers to labels not mattering when it comes to music, but I'm weird that way...

that sounds good.

sounded to me like a smug swipe at bluegrass music. i'd've needed a little more to get the meaning you got from the two word 'don't matter' post in the context of this thread. but i'm weird that way...

I was referring to the dilemma posed in the post before mine. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Chuck Nessa

[thedwork]

Interesting. I'd assume it refers to labels not mattering when it comes to music, but I'm weird that way...

that sounds good.

sounded to me like a smug swipe at bluegrass music. i'd've needed a little more to get the meaning you got from the two word 'don't matter' post in the context of this thread. but i'm weird that way...

I was referring to the dilemma posed in the post before mine. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

that's cool chuck. i didn't pick up on it. i'm so used to people quoting what they're responding to in their posts (so that it's clear) that it looked to me like your two word 'don't matter' post was a general statement toward this now general bluegrass thread. if what you're responding to isn't referenced at all in your own post, and all you write is a word or two, it can be confusing. bulletin boards can do that.

thanks for clearing it up. and i'm of course glad that you don't have an 'attitude' toward bluegrass music. it's beautiful stuff man.

[thedwork]

It’s a wide-ranging piece covering his precocious beginnings, time spent with the popular group Nickel Creek,

I do like Nickel Creek, have one of their albums, and I like that they sound like fresh-faced kids. Another fave is Alison Krause, who I think produced the Nickel Creek album.

Nickel Creek is fine, but as far as Thile is concerned, that's probably my least favorite stuff from him. his Punch Brothers group is awesome and his cd of duets w/ Edgar Meyer is as well. and i got to see him sit in w/ Mark O'Connor's group nearly every night for a week at The Iridium jazz club back in like 2004 or so. that was some of the most unbelievable shit i've ever seen. Thile schooled O'Connor, i kid you not. anyone that can burn O'Connor is from another planet. it was some of the best music i heard in that club the entire time i worked there.

and i tend to like Krauss's Union Station stuff the best... but her version of "I'll Fly Away" w/ Gillian Welch is beautiful.

[kenny weir]

I recently had a great thirst come upon me for some hardcore bluegrass, so I topped up my meagre stocks by placing my first ever orders with County Records:

http://www.countysales.com/

Quirky, cranky old-school website, but it works. The service, packaging and speed of delivery have been excellent. As well, they have a "buy six and you get another free" deal (you choose from a list that comes up when you check out). I got some old-timey as well - excellent fiddle anthologies of Texas, Ozarks and Mississippi fiddle music - but here's what bluegrass I picked up.

Red Allen - Keep on Going: The Rebel & Melodeon Recordings (Rebel)

Red Allen - Lonesome and Blue: The Complete County recordings (Rebel)

I've heard me some Red Allen before, but only in passing. This is my first up-close and intense listening. What a brilliant artist! Very much the traditionalist, and very much in the high and lonesome realms of the Monroe and the Stanleys. These are early to mid '60s recordings that feature the likes of Frank Wakefield, David Grisman and Bill Emerson. Allen is an incredible singer, and the picking is super. Mind you, it always is on bluegrass recordings. The best thing here, though, especially on the County recordings, is Red's ability to harness tunes with a honky tonk heart and make them fit so seamlessly and superbly into the bluegrass format. Sure, traditional bluegrass is stuffed with love gone wrong songs, but here they get a spitting, sometimes venomous, anguished and rip-your-heart-out treatment that is more personal and confessional than I am used to with bluegrass. Simply outstanding and essential, both records.

The Lilly Brothers & Don Stover - Early Recordings (County)

Only 11 tracks here. But you know what? In times when so very many CDs/albums are Too Damn Long, running time of 26 minutes is Pretty Damn Cool. Especially whn the music is as good as this. These '56/'57 were recorded for the Event label and feature traditional material almost exclusively. There's even a version of When The Saints Go Marching In that works just fine. Everything is top shelf - the singing, the picking, especially that of banjo man Stover, who displays a capacity for nuances and the subtle that isn't always easy to find in bluegrass. For me this and the Allen discs are right up there with the best of Monroe, the Stanleys and other bluegrass gods.

Reno & Smiley - Early Years: 1951-1959 (Gusto)

Oh, how I love eradicating long-entrenched blind spots! Far as I can tell, this is a four-disc small-box version of a slightly earlier long-box release. In any case, I jumped at chance to pick it up for the County price of $25. A fine, fine bargain! Only had this a week, so I'm still exploring the music. There's a lot of gospel, some fine instrumentals. There's even drums, electric bass and steel guitar on some tracks. My purist heart was all ready to be horrified, but honestly you can't tell and it wouldn't matter if you could. These '50s tracks for the King label feature a swag of fancy banjo picking by Don Reno. I could say that some of the stuff he pulls off is gimmicky, gratuitous, gauche and tacky, but it all makes me smile, so who cares? The set comes with a great booklet and full details, making the $25 even a better bet.

Various artists - Bluegrass: Independent Sides 1951-1954 (JSP)

This complements an earlier JSP box I have that covers '31-'53. As with that box, this one plays fast and loose with the definition of bluegrass - but when you're dealing with "small label bluegrass", as this outing does, that goes with the territory. So there's some electric guitar here, and some stuff that is more old-time and proto-bluegrass than genuine bluegrass. But it's all good to great. The focus of the set is on small labels such as Folk Star, Murual, Blue Ridge and Colonial. There's stars to be in the form of Larry Richardson, Jime Eanes, Bill Clifton, Red Allen and Sonny Osbourne, and at least double that many obscure artists. Without being low-fi in the way of pre-war blues and country and jazz, everything here has a crusty, unadorned sound that suits the music just fine.

Edited August 23, 2010 by kenny weir

[J.A.W.]

I recently had a great thirst come upon me for some hardcore bluegrass, so I topped up my meagre stocks by placing my first ever orders with County Records:

http://www.countysales.com/

Quirky, cranky old-school website, but it works. The service, packaging and speed of delivery have been excellent. As well, they have a "buy six and you get another free" deal (you choose from a list that comes up when you check out). I got some old-timey as well - excellent fiddle anthologies of Texas, Ozarks and Mississippi fiddle music - but here's what bluegrass I picked up.

County Records' Old-Time CDs are excellent and the sound is relatively great. Richard Nevins did quite a few masterings for them. For classic Bluegrass my favourite label is Bear Family, with their great Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs and Stanley Brothers sets, but County has some good stuff too.