black saint/soul note

[ep1str0phy]

I'm a fan of Ming--more so for what it is than what it promises. There's no doubt that this crowd could produce one hell of an avant blowout; what we get, instead, is a well-arranged, temperate set of free jazz-inflected post-bop. As beautiful as Ming is, I have to wonder what a riskier direction would have produced--and with these cats... it's nice to see so many adventurous faces excelling in this context, though. Great compositions and some phenomenal blowing over a set of choice charts... nothing that'll blow my mind, but I'll take it over a good 99% of whatever's eating up the bins these days.

On Wynton--could it really be done? And--even then--would it matter when we have so many forward-looking improvisers--hell, trumpet players--so well versed in the entire history of the music? WM would be a virtual nonentity in a scene comprised of Lester Bowie, Olu Dara, Raphe Malik, etc. This is a music of ideas as well as chops; last time I checked, Wynton was severely lacking in the former. It's truly fantastical to imagine that WM could stake an interesting, unique claim in the David Murray world where he hasn't even succeeded in so much in his fairly parochial, backasswards, real-world musical sphere. We shouldn't give Wynton too much credit either way; the conservative revolution would've happened without him--not in the same form, perhaps, but damn if it wasn't the 80's and damn if the powers-that-be wouldn't have thrown everything into reverse sooner or later. Like a lot of icons, he's 99% hype, 1% chops--and the cat has killer chops.

Thanks for getting me to pull out Ming again, by the way.

Edited April 26, 2006 by ep1str0phy

[Chalupa]

Up.

I'm going through a Black Saint/Soul Note phase right now, with a dash of India Navigation thrown in.

Some great recommendations here. Thanks to Flurin for finding this thread and linking it in the discography thread.

[paul secor]

A few more Black Saint recs:

John Lindberg Trio: Give and Take - trio w. George Lewis & Barry Altschul

John Lindberg Ensemble: Bounce - w. Dave Douglas, Ed Thigpen, & Larry Ochs

&

George Lewis: Shadowgraph, 5 [sextet] - more abstract than most Black Saints, but rewarding if you listen

[Chalupa]

Any thoughts on the Oliver Lake BN albums?

[Chuck Nessa]

Any thoughts on the Oliver Lake BN albums?

typo?

[Chalupa]

Oops. You're right that should have been BS, not BN.

[Chuck Nessa]

Oops. You're right that should have been BS, not BN.

You sayin' anything not a BN is BS?

[robviti]

fight, fight, fight!

[Chalupa]

Oops. You're right that should have been BS, not BN.

You sayin' anything not a BN is BS?

Nice try. Now how about some Black Saint/Soul Note recommendations!

[AndrewHill]

A few more Black Saint recs:

John Lindberg Trio: Give and Take - trio w. George Lewis & Barry Altschul

John Lindberg Ensemble: Bounce - w. Dave Douglas, Ed Thigpen, & Larry Ochs

&

George Lewis: Shadowgraph, 5 [sextet] - more abstract than most Black Saints, but rewarding if you listen

Picked up the Lewis earlier this year and man, what a record! Lindberg's The Catbird Sings, is another killer disk.

I'd like to recommend some drummer-led disks:

Beaver Harris 360 Music Experience: Beautiful Africa-has McIntyre and Moncur in the front line who play superbly.

Andrew Cyrille: Good to Go: A Tribute to Bu-has some great James Newton.

[randyhersom]

Up due to current interest

[clifford_thornton]

Anyone heard the Steven Horenstien?

[Д.Д.]

Anyone heard the Steven Horenstien?

Yes, his disc on BS (or SN, I forgot) is good (and quite unique).

[blajay]

According to Jazz Wise, "Italian label Cam Jazz, who own Black Saint and Soul Note, are to put out box sets representing their fine back catalogue."

[romualdo]

Regarding the recent BS/SN boxed sets, below is a reply I just received from CAMS

Dear Stephen,

thank you for you email.

Concerning the Box Set collection, including albums by some of the artist who partecipated in the success of Soul Note & Black Saint (Charlie Haden, Enrico Rava, Henry Threadgill and Enrico Pieranunzi) ,will be in Exclusive Distribution of HARMONIA MUNDI IINTRANTIONAL.

For information: info.arles@harmoniamundi.com

Best Regards

Simone

C.A.M. S.r.l.

(Mr.) Simone Vendittelli

(Export Department)

THE COMPLETEREMASTERED RECORDINGS ON BLACK SAINT & SOUL NOTE

1. CHARLIE HADEN 5 CD SET BXS 1001

OLD AND NEW DREAMS

A TRIBUTE TO BLACKWELL

ETUDES

SILENCE

FIRST SONG

2. ENRICO RAVA 5 CD SET BXS 1002

IL GIRO DEL GIORNO IN 80 MONDI

ANDANADA

RAVA STRING BAND

SECRETS

ELECTRIC FIVE

3. THREADGILL 7 CD SET BXS 1003

LIVE AIR

AIR MAIL

LIVE AT MONTREAL INTERNATIONAL JAZZ FESTIVAL

AIR SHOW NO. 1

SPIRIT OF NUFF...NUFF

SONG OUT OF MY TREES

FLUTISTRY

4. ENRICO PIERANUNZI 6 CD SET BXS 1004

ISIS

DEEP DOWN

NO MAN’S LAND

FLUX AND CHANGE

SEAWARD

MA L’AMORE NO

[colinmce]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but Amazon is now offering On-Demand CD-Rs of many OOP BS/SN titles for $9.90 or less.

[Stefan Wood]

Which is a good thing, since most of the catalog had been hard to find and at a higher price for several years. Die hards, however, will try to look for the original cds or vinyls. One can still order directly from Cam Jazz.

[Chuck Nessa]

I recently ordered 10 Black Saints and one of them (without warning) was a cdr.

[romualdo]

I recently ordered 10 Black Saints and one of them (without warning) was a cdr.

If you email CAM (simone@camscores.com) they will send you a list of what CD's are now only available as CDR's

as more CD's go out OOS (& will probably not repress them) I presume the list will get bigger

[king ubu]

Gee - I hope they're asking a bit less for CD-Rs!? Quite a bad surprise!

I ordered all the Lyons discs a couple of months back (except "Nuba" which I had to get used from amazon marketplace) and added a George Russell one to that order, luckily it was all real CDs.

[peterintoronto]

Do we suspect that these new box sets will be CDRs?

[WorldB3]

Back when Soul Note/ Black Saint hit emusic before album pricing changes I downloaded a ton, I put together a comp for some friends. I left off George Lewis and George Russell due to time restrictions.

Soul Note/Black Saint mix

Disc 1:

Around - 6:49 - Karl Berger - Around

Calvary - 7:26 - Billy Harper - In Europe

Lonely Woman - 9:59 - Geri Allen with Charlie Haden, Paul Motian - Etudes

Intentions - 13:14 - George Adams-Don Pullen - Live At The Village Vanguard

Strange Serenade - 7:05 - Andrew Hill - Strange Serenade

One Time Out - 5:48 - Paul Motian - One Time Out

Seagulls Of Kristiansund - 26:02 - Mal Waldron Quintet - The Seagulls Of Kristiansund

Disc 2:

Blue Chopsticks - 6:20 - Steve Lacy-Roswell Rudd - Regeneration

Latin Genetics - Paul Bley - Memoirs

9 X 9 - 7:15 - Paul Motian - The Story Of Maryam

Chimney Road - 6:53 - Karl Berger with Ed Blackwell, Dave Holland - Transit

Croquet Ballet - 13:02 - Billy Harper - Black Saint

Mist Flower - 15:29 - Andrew Hill - Strange Serenade

Misterioso - 6:55 - Paul Motian Quintet - Misterioso

Edited March 11, 2010 by WorldB3

[clifford_thornton]

And some Bill Dixon

[ATR]

FWIW,

In:Sanity/Beaver Harris 360 Experience

Live at the Brooklyn Academy of Music/World Saxophone Quartet

Nuba/Lyons, Cyrille, Lee

Metamusician's Stomp/Andrew Cyrille

Revue/World Saxophone Quartet

Raw Materials and Residuals/Julius Hemphill

Ming/David Murray

Hearinga Suite/Muhal Richard Abrams

Historic Concerts/Max Roach and Cecil Taylor

Shades/Andrew Hill

If you don't have the Roach/Taylor duets, the Beaver Harris, and the live WSQ then I don't think you have the best of Black Saint and Soul Note.

[JETman]

Although I like some of the records you mention, I definitely beg to differ. Redman and Blackwell's "Red and Black in Willisau" and Blackwell's "Walls and Bridges" jump to mind immediately as exceptional records. Some of Motian's, Berne's and the Berne/Formanek/Hirschfeld collective "Loose Cannon" are also standouts.