black saint/soul note

[robviti]

2005 is the 30th anniversary of the founding of the black saint label. as far as i can see, there's no new u.s. distributor, just north country/cadence. i was sorry to see allegro stop distributing black saint and soul note a while back. i used to be able to get a good number of their titles fairly cheap from allegro's outlet store: cybermusicsurplus.

btw, cybermusicsurplus.com is having their end of the summer clearance sale. even without the bs/sn catalog, they've still got a lot of nice titles to choose from on labels like linn, great jazz masters (24bit remastered black lion titles), freelance, epm, ronnie's scott's jazz house, and others. most of the cds i ordered were under $5!

Edited September 14, 2005 by jazzshrink

[Guy Berger]

I totally forgot a grrrrrrrrrreat album that wasn't mentioned on this thread: pianist Jon Jang's Two Flowers on a Stem, w/David Murray, James Newton (who's brilliant on this), Santi Debriano and Billy Hart. And a musician playing a traditional Chinese instrument, but I can't remember his/her name.

Guy

[ep1str0phy]

(So long as this thread's still up...) I just recently acquired a copy of "Strange Serenade" (Andrew Hill-Soul Note). Alan Silva makes an excellent appearance on bass (not so much a background voice--more a piece of melodic counterpoint) and Freddie Waits--whom I've never heard in this sort of pseudo-free context--is stunning. This album feels a lot "freer" than the Blue Notes (to which I am far more accustomed), and there's very little in the way of "traditional" swing. Regardless, there's a definite sense of propulsion to the trio--seemingly, a one-off deal with a substantial amount of potential. The group really gets a chance to stretch on some startling, evocative "mood pieces"--some of which also appear on the "Test of Time" records. I may have to listen to this one again, but I think I like it more than a lot of the BNs--beautfiul, weird, wonderful stuff.

[LAL]

Waiting for several Black Saint/Soul Note titles to arrive:

Dewey Redman - Living On The Edge

Steve Lacy - Revenue

Frank Lowe - Decision In Paradise

~ Hope they're good!

[ep1str0phy]

Waiting for several Black Saint/Soul Note titles to arrive:

Dewey Redman - Living On The Edge

Steve Lacy - Revenue

Frank Lowe - Decision In Paradise

~ Hope they're good!  

←

I can speak for the Lowe: somewhat less explosive than his more "famous" sessions (e.g., "Black Beings"), but enjoyable in its own way. Again, don't expect a wail fest; this one is more in line with his later work on CIMP. The band--which is all star--doesn't stray far from freebopish melody/groove excursions. In fact, a number of the cuts are relatively "inside"--but hardly boring. Lowe, Cherry, Moncur (etc.) had a taste for the subtler side of the New Thing, and this album shows it. I'd say middle-of-the-road, but that statement doesn't seem to do the album justice. "Low key", perhaps?

Edited November 9, 2005 by ep1str0phy

[Clunky]

Waiting for several Black Saint/Soul Note titles to arrive:

Dewey Redman - Living On The Edge

Steve Lacy - Revenue

Frank Lowe - Decision In Paradise

~ Hope they're good! 

←

Dewey Redman - Living On The Edge

This is a very decent session with Geri Allen. Dewey is in great form throughout this stylistically diverse set.

[JSngry]

Waiting for several Black Saint/Soul Note titles to arrive:

Dewey Redman - Living On The Edge

Steve Lacy - Revenue

Frank Lowe - Decision In Paradise

~ Hope they're good!  

←

I can speak for the Lowe: somewhat less explosive than his more "famous" sessions (e.g., "Black Beings"), but enjoyable in its own way. Again, don't expect a wail fest; this one is more in line with his later work on CIMP. The band--which is all star--doesn't stray far from freebopish melody/groove excursions. In fact, a number of the cuts are relatively "inside"--but hardly boring. Lowe, Cherry, Moncur (etc.) had a taste for the subtler side of the New Thing, and this album shows it. I'd say middle-of-the-road, but that statement doesn't seem to do the album justice. "Low key", perhaps?

←

I love that Lowe side! "Melodic" and/or "singing" is how I've always thought of it, somewhat akin to Cherry's Art Deco in aftertaste. If you like one, you should like the other, unless you're coming at the Cherry side from the more conservative side, in which case you might still like the Lowe. The odds might be just a little less, though.

The Dewey side is another darn good'un. Dewey & Geri go together every bit as nicely as do Ornette & Geri.

[Kalo]

Frank Lowe's Decision in Paradise is one of my favorite records of the 1980s. Just beautiful. I love his lyrical, epigrammatic style of playing on this one. A must for Grachan Moncur III and Geri Allen fans as well. In my opinion, Black Saint/Soul Note was the jazz label of the 1980s.

[Alexander Hawkins]

Two I love - Air 'Air Mail' and Joseph Jarman/Don Moye/Don Pullen 'The Magic Triangle'.

[ep1str0phy]

Two I love - Air 'Air Mail' and Joseph Jarman/Don Moye/Don Pullen 'The Magic Triangle'.

←

Oh man--"RB" is one of my all time favorite compositions. Should've become an "avant" standard (though it made the rounds a bit). Steve McCall owns our asses.

Haven't heard the Jarman/Moye/Pullen, but I'm very interested. Maybe I'll order it (one of these days).

[Alexander Hawkins]

Two I love - Air 'Air Mail' and Joseph Jarman/Don Moye/Don Pullen 'The Magic Triangle'.

←

Haven't heard the Jarman/Moye/Pullen, but I'm very interested. Maybe I'll order it (one of these days).

←

Do that! I had another listen today inspired by this thread, and it's great stuff.

[Guest akanalog]

there is a jarman/moye/dyani which is madd dope also.

[JSngry]

Both of Jarman's BS sides remain favorites, as do all of Julius Hemphill's. Not a dud (or even semi-dud) in the bunch.

[SEK]

Black Saint/Soul Note was the jazz label of the 1980s.

And the '70s (from '75 or '76 on).

[charlesp]

Many of these have already been listed, so these favorites reinforce previous recommendations:

Black Saint

Muhal Richard Abrams - Sightsong - 0003

- Hearinga Suite - 0103

Air - Air Mail - 0049

Antony Braxton - Six Compositions 4tet (1984) - 0086

- Six Monk's Compositions (1987) - 0116

John Carter - Dauwhe - 0057

Andrew Cyrille - Metamusician's Stomp - 0025

Julius Hemphill - Raw Materials and Risiduals - 0015

Joseph Jarman/Don Moye - Black Paladins - 0042

David Murray 8tet - Ming - 0045 or Home - 0055

trio - The Hill - 0110

Old & New Dreams - A Tribute to Blackwell - 0113

Don Pullen - Evidence of Things Unseen - 0080

- The Sixth Sense - 0088

Dewey Redman - Living on the Edge - 0123

Max Roach/Anthony Braxton - Birth and Rebirth - 0024

World Sax 4tet - WSQ - 0046 or Revue - 0056

Soul Note

Ran Blake - Short Life of Barbara Monk - 1127

Art Farmer - You Make Me Smile - 1076

Haden/Motian/Allen - Etudes - 1162

Andrew Hill - Shades - 1113

Lee Konitz - New York Album - 1169

Steve Lacy solo - Only Monk - 1160

trio - The Window - 1185

8tet - Vespers - 1260

Frank Lowe - Exotic Heartbreak - 1032

- Decision in Paradise - 1082

Mengelberg/Lacy/Lewis/Gorter/Bennink - Change of Season - 1104

Mal Waldron/Steve Lacy - Sempre Amore - 1170

solo - Update - 1130

charles

Edited November 12, 2005 by charlesp

[Guest akanalog]

picked up a few of these today-

archie shepps "sea of faces" which is pretty cool

clifford jordan's "repitition" which is good for what it is but isn't my favorite kind of stuff

billy harper's "black saint" which i used to have and then didn't have and am glad to own again because it is great

billy bang "the fire within" which pretty cool despite my dislike of violin. never heard of the guitar player on here before, but he knows what he is doing.

my least favorite aspect to this label (labels)-lack of session information on the outside of the packaging. you have no idea who is on what album a lot of the time. stops me from buying sometimes...unless the store has jazz books handy and i can look them up.

[RDK]

What differentiated BS and SN releases?

[JSngry]

Soul Note was the later-starting label and was originally intended as a label for more "veteran" type players.

[Guy Berger]

What differentiated BS and SN releases?

←

SN is the direct translation of "BS" into Italian.

Guy

[Johnny E]

i used to be able to get a good number of their titles fairly cheap from allegro's outlet store: cybermusicsurplus.

Fairly cheap? I remember getting a shit load of em' there for like $5 a pop. Man that was awesome! That's when I really stocked up on the Black Saints and Souls Notes. Some of my favorites are:

Andrew Cyrille's Metamusicians' Stomp & Special People (featuring young firebrand named David S. Ware)

Misha Mengelberg/Steve Lacy/George Lewis/Ernst Reyseger/Han Bennink - Dutch Masters

The Sonny Clark Memorial Quartet (featuring John Zorn and Wayne Horvitz) - Voodoo

Leo Smith and the New Dalta Ahkri - Go In Numbers

and although they've been mentioned already, they can never be recommended enough - Muhal Richard Abrahms Hearinga Suite & Blu Blu Blu

Edited November 15, 2005 by Johnny E

[ep1str0phy]

i used to be able to get a good number of their titles fairly cheap from allegro's outlet store: cybermusicsurplus.

Fairly cheap? I remember getting a shit load of em' there for like $5 a pop. Man that was awesome! That's when I really stocked up on the Black Saints and Souls Notes. Some of my favorites are:

Andrew Cyrille's Metamusicians' Stomp & Special People (featuring young firebrand named David S. Ware)

Misha Mengelberg/Steve Lacy/George Lewis/Ernst Reyseger/Han Bennink - Dutch Masters

The Sonny Clark Memorial Quartet (featuring John Zorn and Wayne Horvitz) - Voodoo

Leo Smith and the New Dalta Ahkri - Go In Numbers

and although they've been mentioned already, they can never be recommended enough - Muhal Richard Abrahms Hearinga Suite & Blu Blu Blu

←

Metamusicians' Stomp is a favorite. My Ship, baby. Avant-garde got soul, too.

Just picked up Shades, folks. Hill is as florid, torrid as ever, and--if it weren't for the relatively conservative rhythm team and somewhat "inside" structures--I'd say it's a return to his Blue Note groove (it's strange talking about this in the present tense...). After Strange Serenade, however, this one is almost (almost) quaint. The ensemble playing is fine, but I keep getting Monk flashbacks. At the very least, it's nice to hear someone playing more traditional ride cymbal rhythms behind an inside/outside Hill. If Hill really is back on Blue Note, he'd better hook up with Joe Chambers stat.

Edited November 16, 2005 by ep1str0phy

[Guest akanalog]

ben riley on "shades", right?

never a fan of his work.

[ep1str0phy]

Didn't this come up somewhere else? Anyway, I think he fits with the album--pulls things a little "in" (which may have been Hill's intention with the date). Frankly, I think Hill works best with less idiomatic players, or at least those who can play on different levels. Riley's alright here, and I'm a fan of his work with Horace Tapscott and much of the Monk material.

ben riley on "shades", right?

never a fan of his work.

←

[Guy Berger]

By the way, a while back BS/SN posted a critics' top ten list for the label. Not sure who the critics were but the list was as follows:

1. David Murray Octet: Ming (Black Saint 120045) [21]

2. World Saxophone Quartet: Revue (Black Saint 120056) [19]

3. Don Cherry/Dewey Redman/Charlie Haden/Ed Blackwell: Old and New Dreams (Black Saint 120013) [17]

4. Max Roach/Cecil Taylor: Historic Concerts (Black Saint 121100/1) [17]

5. Roswell Rudd/Steve Lacy/Misha Mengelberg/Kent Carter/Han Bennink: Regeneration (Soul Note 121054) [16]

6. Muhal Richard Abrams: Hearinga Suite (Black Saint 120103) [14]

7. World Saxophone Quartet: Steppin' with the WSQ (Black Saint 120027) [12]

8. Muhal Richard Abrams Orchestra: Blu Blu Blu (Black Saint 120117) [11]

9. Billy Harper: Black Saint (Black Saint 120001) [11]

10. George Lewis: Homage to Charles Parker (Black Saint 120029) [11]

11. Anthony Braxton: Six Monk Compositions 1987 (Black Saint 120116) [10]

12. Andrew Hill Trio & Quartet: Shades (Soul Note 121113) [10]

13. David Murray Octet: Home (Black Saint 120055) [9]

14. Max Roach/Anthony Braxton: Birth and Rebirth (Black Saint 120024) [9]

15. George Adams-Don Pullen Quartet: Live at the Village Vanguard (Soul Note 121094) [8]

16. Dave Douglas: Parallel Worlds (Soul Note 121226) [8]

17. Julius Hemphill Sextet: Fat Man and the Hard Blues (Black Saint 120115) [8]

18. Steve Lacy Octet: Vespers (Soul Note 121260) [8]

19. Misha Mengelberg/George Lewis/Steve Lacy/Arjen Gorter/Han Bennink: Change of Season (Soul Note 121104) [8]

20. David Murray Trio: The Hill (Black Saint 120110) [8]

21. Hamiet Bluiett Clarinet Family: Live in Berlin (Black Saint 120097) [7]

22. John Carter Quintet: Dauwhe (Black Saint 120057) [7]

23. Charlie Haden/Paul Motian/Geri Allen: Etudes (Soul Note 121162) [7]

24. Muhal Richard Abrams: Sightsong (Black Saint 120003) [6]

25. Sonny Clark Memorial Quartet: Voodoo (Black Saint 120109) [6]

26. Julius Hemphill Sextet: Five Chord Stud (Black Saint 120140) [6]

27. Julius Hemphill: Raw Material and Residuals (Black Saint 120015) [6]

28. Steve Lacy: Only Monk (Soul Note 121160) [6]

29. Don Pullen Quintet: The Sixth Sense (Black Saint 120088) [6]

30. Cecil Taylor Segments II: Winged Serpents (Soul Note 121089) [6]

31. Tom Varner: The Mystery of Compassion (Soul Note 121017) [6]

32. Air: Air Mail (Black Saint 120049) [5]

33. Ran Blake Quartet: Short Life of Barbara Monk (Soul Note 121127) [5]

34. Andrew Cyrille and Maono: Metamusician's Stomp (Black Saint 120025) [5]

35. Joseph Jarman/Don Moye: Black Paladins (Black Saint 120042) [5]

36. David Murray Octet: Murray's Steps (Black Saint 120065) [5]

37. Sun Ra Arkestra: Mayan Temples (Black Saint 120121) [5]

38. Cecil Taylor: For Olim (Soul Note 121150) [5]

39. Kenny Clarke/Andrew Cyrille/Milford Graves/Don Moye: Pieces of Time (Soul Note 121078) [5]

40. Mal Waldron/Steve Lacy: Sempre Amore (Soul Note 121170) [5]

41. Muhal Richard Abrams Octet: View from Within (Black Saint 120081) [4]

42. George Adams-Don Pullen Quartet: Live at the Village Vanguard, Volume 2 (Soul Note 121144) [4]

43. Billy Bang Quintet: Rainbow Gladiator (Soul Note 121016) [4]

44. Charles Gayles: Consecration (Black Saint 120138) [4]

45. Lee Konitz Quartet: Zounds (Soul Note 121219) [4]

46. Steve Lacy/Roswell Rudd: Trickles (Black Saint 120008) [4]

47. Jimmy Lyons/Andrew Cyrille: Burnt Offering (Black Saint 120130) [4]

48. David Murray/Randy Weston: The Healers (Black Saint 120118) [4]

49. Don Cherry/Dewey Redman/Charlie Haden/Ed Blackwell: A Tribute to Blackwell (Black Saint 120113) [4]

50. Don Pullen: Evidence of Things Unseen (Black Saint 120080) [4]

51. Max Roach Double Quartet: Bright Moments (Soul Note 121159) [4]

52. George Russell: Electronic Sonata for Souls Loved by Nature (1968) (Soul Note 121009) [4]

53. Sun Ra Arkestra: Reflections in Blue (Black Saint 120101) [4]

54. Cecil Taylor: Olu Iwa (Soul Note 121139) [4]

55. Heny Threadgill Very Very Circus: Spirit of Nuff...Nuff (Black Saint 120134) [4]

56. Muhal Richard Abrams Orchestra: Rejoicing with the Light (Black Saint 120071) [3]

57. George Adams-Dannie Richmond Quartet: Hand to Hand (Soul Note 121007) [3]

58. Billy Bang Sextet: The Fire from Within (Soul Note 121086) [3]

59. Martha Bass/Fontella Bass/David Peaston/Amina Claudine Myers/Malachi Favors: From the Root to the Source (Soul 121006) [3]

60. Karl Berger/Dave Holland/Ed Blackwell: Transit (Black Saint 120092) [3]

61. Anthony Braxton: Six Compositions 1984 (Black Saint 120086) [3]

62. Giorgio Gaslini: Ayler's Wings (Soul Note 121270) [3]

63. The 360 Degree Music Experience: In:Sanity (Black Saint 120006) [3]

64. Andrew Hill: Verona Rag (Soul Note 121110) [3]

65. Jon Jang & The Pan-Asian Arkestra: Tiananmen! (Soul Note 121223) [3]

66. John Lindberg/Albert Mangelsdorff/Ed Thigpen/Eric Watson: Quartet Afterstorm (Black Saint 120162) [3]

67. Frank Lowe: The Flam (Black Saint 120005) [3]

68. Roscoe Mitchell and the Note Factory: This Dance Is for Steve McCall (Soul Note 120150) [3]

69. Roscoe Mitchell and the Sound Ensemble: 3 x 4 Eye (Black Saint 120050) [3]

70. David Murray Quartet: Morning Song (Black Saint 120075) [3]

71. Glenn Spearman Double Trio: Smokehouse (Black Saint 120157) [3]

72. Mal Waldron Quintet: The Seagulls of Kristiansund (Soul Note 121148) [3]

73. World Saxophone Quartet: WSQ (Black Saint 120046) [3]

[brownie]

A top ten list of Black Saint/Soul Note that leaves out Marcello Melis' 'The New Village on the Left' cannot be taken very seriously