black saint/soul note

[Guest akanalog]

seems like these albums are around again. new US distributor or something?

i recently purchased "black paladins" and think it is great. i also own "black saint" by billy harper which i think is great. i also like that george lewis "homage to charlie parker" one for the beautiful piano solo towards the end by anthony davis and even though i dislike solo albums generally, i really also like jaki byards "for them, for us" which is beautiful.

any other good ones? i generally like stuff from the 80s and before, nothing too recent.

[bertrand]

The first Old And New Dreams on Black Saint is fabulous; the last one called Tribute To Blackwell is 'only' very, very good.

Bertrand.

[BFrank]

You can't go wrong with any of the Billy Harper albums.

Also check out George Adams/Don Pullen Quartet. Those are all great, too.

[Nate Dorward]

Ran Blake, The Short Life of Barbara Monk is another excellent one. & Lacy/Waldron's Sempre Amore is a classic.

[kh1958]

David Murray's Home is my favorite of his Octet recordings.

The two George Adams-Dannie Richmond albums (with Jimmy Knepper and Hugh Lawson) are outstanding.

Don Pullen's Milano Strut is worth acquiring for the haunting performance on organ of the title track.

There are lots of wonderful recordings on these two labels from the 1970s/80s.

[JSngry]

There are lots of wonderful recordings on these two labels from the 1970s/80s.

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Yeah, I'd say it's pretty much worth getting anything on the label by artists you like or think you might like. They had a very strong run.

[Guest akanalog]

ok well what about muhal richard abrams. where is the best place to start with him at this point?

[paul secor]

There are lots of wonderful recordings on these two labels from the 1970s/80s.

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Yeah, I'd say it's pretty much worth getting anything on the label by artists you like or think you might like. They had a very strong run.

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That about says it, but since you asked for recommendations, here are some more:

Black Saint:

Muhal Richard Abrams: Sightsong - duets with Malachi Favors

Andrew Cyrille/Jimmy Lyons/Jeanne Lee: Nuba

John Lindberg: The Catbird Sings w. Cyrille, Larry Ochs, & Wadada Leo Smith

Marcello Melis: The New Village on the Left w. Roswell Rudd, Enrico Rava, and a Sardinian vocal quartet - interesting sounds

Max Roach/Anthony Braxton: Birth & Rebirth

Steve Lacy: Trickles w. Roswell Rudd

William Parker: In Order To Survive w. Grachan Moncur & Rob Brown

Soul Note:

Ray Anderson: Right Down Your Alley

Ran Blake: Suffield Gothic - solo & duets w. Houston Person

Billy Bang: Rainbow Gladiator & Valve No. 10

Bobby Bradford: One Night Stand

Rob Brown: High Wire

Andrew Cyrille: Good to Go w. Lisle Atkinson & James Newton

Steve Lacy: Only Monk & More Monk - solo Lacy playing Monk tunes

Frank Lowe: Decision in Paradise w. Moncur, Don Cherry

M'Boom: Collage

Roswell Rudd: Regeneration

Cecil Taylor: Winged Serpents; For Olim - solo; & Historic Concerts duos w. Max Roach

These are all recordings I've enjoyed over the years. I can't guarantee that they'll all be to your taste, but your sensibilities and intelligence won't be insulted by any of them.

Edited September 9, 2005 by paul secor

[Guest akanalog]

yeah i just picked up "nuba" actually and i like it a lot.

i remember hearing "milano strut" years ago and i did find the organ track haunting but perhaps the rest was something entirely different which i wasn't looking for at the time.

[jlhoots]

ok well what about muhal richard abrams.  where is the best place to start with him at this point?

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Blu, Blu, Blu

[clifford_thornton]

Muhal's Delmarks are my favorites of his, but I suppose that goes without saying.

Just got Nuba today on LP, had passed it by enough times that I went for it. 'Course, it's pretty great. Any Lyons records on BS are worth picking out, and though it might be a little out for your tastes, AK, "Capricorn Rising" (Pullen-Rivers quartet) is a motherfucker.

The Bill Dixon records on Soul Note are a pretty good run, too, though I'm partial to the more recent stuff with Tony Oxley, Barry Guy and Wm. Parker. The "Live in Italy" stuff from the early '80s is good, but he has done better works since (and before).

[RDK]

There are lots of wonderful recordings on these two labels from the 1970s/80s.

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Yeah, I'd say it's pretty much worth getting anything on the label by artists you like or think you might like. They had a very strong run.

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I don't disagree. But why is that? I mean, what was it about Black Saint/Soul Note that often resulted in an artist's best work?

[Guy Berger]

There are lots of wonderful recordings on these two labels from the 1970s/80s.

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Yeah, I'd say it's pretty much worth getting anything on the label by artists you like or think you might like. They had a very strong run.

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I don't disagree. But why is that? I mean, what was it about Black Saint/Soul Note that often resulted in an artist's best work?

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I think this is a particularly interesting question because BS/SN don't have the same label mystique as BN, Impulse! or ECM, which would potentially bias assessments upward.

Guy

Edited September 9, 2005 by Guy

[gnhrtg]

One that has not been mentioned: Frank Lowe "The Flam" (Black Saint), recorded in 1975, I believe.

[sidewinder]

One that has not been mentioned: Frank Lowe "The Flam" (Black Saint), recorded in 1975, I believe.

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In a fit of madness I sold my vinyl of that one !

[kh1958]

Actually, during that period, I thought Black Saint and Soul Note were the best active labels going. They had a mystique as far as I was concerned--the LPs had a consistent design look, the pressings were very good, and recording quality was first rate.

A few more favorites that occur to me:

Max Roach--Scott-Free (with Cecil Bridgewater, Odean Pope and Tyrone Brown--a powerful composition and LP-long performance--my favorite later period Max Roach).

Sun Ra--Mayan Temples (my favorite late Sun Ra recording).

Don Pullen--Evidence of Things Unseen (great solo piano recording).

Charlie Haden--Silence (with Chet Baker).

There are lots of wonderful recordings on these two labels from the 1970s/80s.

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Yeah, I'd say it's pretty much worth getting anything on the label by artists you like or think you might like. They had a very strong run.

←

I don't disagree. But why is that? I mean, what was it about Black Saint/Soul Note that often resulted in an artist's best work?

←

I think this is a particularly interesting question because BS/SN don't have the same label mystique as BN, Impulse! or ECM, which would potentially bias assessments upward.

Guy

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Edited September 9, 2005 by kh1958

[JSngry]

There are lots of wonderful recordings on these two labels from the 1970s/80s.

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Yeah, I'd say it's pretty much worth getting anything on the label by artists you like or think you might like. They had a very strong run.

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I don't disagree. But why is that? I mean, what was it about Black Saint/Soul Note that often resulted in an artist's best work?

←

I think this is a particularly interesting question because BS/SN don't have the same label mystique as BN, Impulse! or ECM, which would potentially bias assessments upward.

Guy

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Well, I guess it depends on what circles you run/ran in. I know that at the time, those lables were considered the most happening in jazz by some. But the albums were import-only back then, so getting them took some extra work if you lived outside of a major metropolitan area. Plus, the artists were mostly represenative of the then-"avant-garde" (in widely varying degrees), or else were folks like Andrew Hill, George Russell, Billy Harper, et al, people who just weren't "interesting" to most American jazz lables of the time, the various Arista offshoots notwithsanding. Although as time went by some more "mainstream" players began to record for both labels, Black Saint was (mostly) for the newer cats, Soul Note for the vets. It was music that was neither marketably retro nor marketably funky nor marketably fusiony, nor marketably "classic" hardboppy, nor marketably anything else other than truly contemporary jazz of many different "styles" (quiet as it's kept, the "avant-garde" is anything but monolithic in terms of "style") w/o any guile, "isms", or anything else. That's always been a hard sell at any given point in time, but, as always, it makes for a catalog with good staying power. If you can stay in business.

As to why they got such good results so consitently, I guess they just had the good sense to go after players who were in a good zone at the time, set'em up in relatively comfortable situations, not interfere too much, and then just go ahead and document the results. Radical idea, eh?

[Д.Д.]

The label (including DDQ in addtiton to Black Saint and Soul Note) is still moderately active, and releases some excellent music.

In addtion to the ones mentioend above, I would recommend John Carter's "Dauwhe" - a beautiful epic work for a large band, and Glenn Spearman's "Free Worlds". And Lindberg's "Catbird sings".

There is really a lot of good stuff in the catalog.

[Guy Berger]

I think this is a particularly interesting question because BS/SN don't have the same label mystique as BN, Impulse! or ECM, which would potentially bias assessments upward.

        Guy

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Well, I guess it depends on what circles you run/ran in.

Me and all the other unconceived babies...

I haven't really had the chance to dig into the BS/SN catalogue yet (I might have only 4 or 5 CDs -- will be rectified over the coming decade), but I don't think anybody's mentioned the Redman/Blackwell duets album (Red & Black Live at Willisau), which is very good if you like those two musicians.

Guy

Edited September 9, 2005 by Guy

[RDK]

I've noticed lately that some old BS/SN albums have been reissued in the budget "Jazz Folio" series (at least I think that's the one). I'd always assumed that this was a quasi-bootleg label, but Jazz Folio does give a copyright credit to BS.

[RDK]

A bit off-topic, but speaking of the Folio Collection, wtf!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-JAZZ-MASTERS-Thelo...1QQcmdZViewItem

[BFrank]

Definitely some nice David Murray's to look into:

DM Octet - "Murray's Steps" and "New Life"

DM Quartet - "Morning Song"

[Guest akanalog]

oh yeah i have "the flam". great stuff. wish i saw more around with charles shaw on drums. i like his style. and alex blake is one of my favorite bassists.

[Spontooneous]

A plug here for Muhal Richard Abrams' "Hearinga Suite" and "Blu Blu Blu."

And for Lacy's incomparable "Vespers."

[Spontooneous]

OK, don't get me started...

I'll second the recommendations for the Sam Rivers/Pullen "Capricorn Rising," a flat-out burner, and the Roach "Scott Free."

Don't forget any of the Roscoe Mitchell titles. Not a one of 'em.