God I hope this story is overblown right now!!!

[Dan Gould]

All these rumors about martial law being declared: According to the Times, a couple of Parishes requested it, but it is not authorized by the State Constitution.

[RainyDay]

Some interesting e-mails from Talking Points Memo posters caught in the storm's path.

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Thank you for posting the blog site. The issues raised are really important and should have everyone asking whether their community is in any way prepared for a major disaster.

I am devastated by this catastrophe. I am wishing I was younger and more nimble so I could volunteer to help. I can donate the money but I wish I could DO something. My heart aches for all those people who have lost loved ones, who no longer have jobs, a home, or a community. I can't even comprehend what that must be like.

The site below details the relief coordination efforts and also lists organizations to which you can contribute.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9115520/

[RainyDay]

All that stuff is really useful when you don't have a fuckin' house.

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Yeah, it's hard to defend looting pawn shops (that have guns) and jewelry stores. It's nice to see that even in the middle of a horror show the idea of free stuff still trumps survival. How very American. I imagine that the lawlessness is going to be a real nightmare. Maybe looting a store for a gun is not such a bad idea.

[ghost of miles]

I don't think people fully grasp the fallout from this yet.

NEW ORLEANS, United States (AFP) - Rescue teams battled through rising flood waters to find survivors of Hurricane Katrina which is feared to have killed hundreds of people along the US Gulf Coast.

While army engineers fought to fill huge breaches in levees designed to waters out of New Orleans, looting broke out and gas leaks caused many fires. The city's mayor warned it could be up to four months before evacuated residents could return.

The US government said, meanwhile, it would release oil from an emergency reserve in a bid to ease international worries of shortages caused by the devastating storm.

Fears of a major death toll grew as the scope of the devastation became more apparent.

Vincent Creel, a city spokesman at Biloxi, Mississippi, estimated that hundreds of people may have been killed along the Mississippi coastline from Pascagoula to Gulfport, including Biloxi.

An emergency management director told the Clarion Ledger newspaper there were 100 confirmed deaths in Harrison County, Mississippi alone.

Authorities told rescuers to leave bodies to one side and concentrate on finding survivors trapped on roofs and in the attics of homes where many people took shelter when 200 kilometer (125 mile) an hour winds crashed into the coast on Monday.

Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour said that 90 percent of buildings in the worst-hit area of the Gulf Coast in his state are "totally just gone".

"The devastation is greater than our worst fears," said Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco. "It is just totally overwhelming."

She said buses and helicopters were being sent into New Orleans to try evacuate thousands of people still in the city where flood water was up to six metres (20 feet) deep.

New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin said bodies floating in the water were becoming an increasing health threat.

Water from Lake Pontchartrain was pouring into the low-lying city after an effort to plug a breach in two levees failed and pumps gave out.

Army engineers were dropping 1,360 kg (3,000 pound) sand bags into the breaches. But Chris Accardo, deputy head of the Corps of Engineers in the region, warned "this will be a long process".

Nagin, who has expressed frustration at the lack of coordination to fix the water defenses, told how he could see the water rise as he gave interviews to US television networks from his office.

"I'm looking uptown. Where there was dry land, there's now several feet of water," he told ABC television.

"The water will rise to try and equal the water level of the lake which is three feet above sea level," Nagin said, adding that 80 percent of New Orleans was under water.

"There were thousands of people that were trapped on roofs and attics. We have saved so many lives. Now we have this other challenge with the rising water," he added.

About 15,000-20,000 people were stuck in the city's Superdome stadium without power and with flood waters rising around them. Nagin said he wanted them evacuated but there was not enough transport.

Parts of the famed French Quarter which were dry on Monday, were under as much as three feet (one meter) of water on Tuesday.

Thousands of National Guard troops have been sent to the region from other states and Nagin said police were bringing looting under control. Martial law has been declared in some parts of the city but shootings and car jackings were reported.

Nagin said it would be three to four months before residents who fled the storm could return. "And the other issue that is concerning me is dead bodies in the water. At some point in time the dead bodies are going to start to create a serious disease issue."

In an earlier interview, Nagin said rescuers were pushing aside bodies to find the living.

Attempts to reach survivors stranded on rooftops were hampered by live power lines, broken gas pipes and debris including cars floating below the surface.

Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco said hundreds of people had been saved but added "We know that many lives have been lost."

Along the shoreline of neighboring Mississippi, glitzy casinos, plush homes and shrimp fishing businesses lay in ruins, after the storm surge crashed ashore Monday.

"This is our tsunami," said AJ Holloway, mayor of the devastated resort city of Biloxi, where bridges were swept away and boats crashed into buildings. "You're going to be looking at hundreds dead along the coast of Mississippi," Biloxi spokesman Creel said.

Authorities said at least 50 people were known to have been killed in Biloxi alone, around 30 of them in a single apartment complex demolished by the storm.

With the storm damage expected to cost many billions of dollars, US authorities decided to release oil from its Strategic Petroleum Reserve to help refineries badly hit by Hurricane Katrina.

Energy Secretary    Samuel Bodman said the White House made the decision late Tuesday and that supplies could be released from Thursday.

According to US government data, Katrina shut down an estimated 95 percent of crude production and 88 percent of natural gas output in the Gulf of Mexico -- which accounts for a quarter of total US oil output.

    President George W. Bush cut short his vacation by two days and was to head back to Washington on Wednesday to coordinate relief efforts.

The Defense Department sent five ships with helicopters, hovercraft and relief supplies, as well as eight maritime rescue teams to flood-ravaged areas, said The New York Times.

In addition, the    Federal Emergency Management Agency has sent 23 disaster medical assistance teams, and the Department of Transportation has supplied 390 trucks carrying water, ice, tarpaulins, mobile homes, generators, forklifts and emergency supplies, the daily said.

[Stefan Wood]

The awful reality being New Orleans as we know it has been wiped out. The flooding alone will have rendered all the buildings useless, and will have to be torn down. There are no bridges into the city, and the highways have been ripped apart. I can see already from some news sources -as well as blog sites- there is growing criticism of lack of preparation in such an emergency. I don't know how you can stop such a thing from happening.

[Hardbopjazz]

It makes all my problems seem real small when you see this. May God help them.

[medjuck]

  there is growing criticism of lack of preparation in such an emergency.  I don't know how you can stop such a thing from happening.

←

Maybe something could have been done. Here's a posting from the Huffington Post so obviously there's some bias but...

Today's must-read article comes courtesy of E&P, which looks back at previous press warnings about the lack of federal dollars the Bush administration was sending to New Orleans as it scrambled to complete its hurricane protection levee system, which ultimately failed in the wake of Katrina. Why did funds stop flowing to the Big Easy? Simple, Bush's war in Iraq was costing too much money.

There it is, in black and white. But the question is, what will the MSM do with this obvious news angle, particularly when Bush makes his inevitable sympathy tour of the devastated region in coming days.

Here are some of the highlights from E&P:

*"New Orleans had long known it was highly vulnerable to flooding and a direct hit from a hurricane. In fact, the federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.

Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid.

Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars."

*" In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness."

*" On June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; told the Times-Picayune: “It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.”"

*"The 2004 hurricane season was the worst in decades. In spite of that, the federal government came back this spring with the steepest reduction in hurricane and flood-control funding for New Orleans in history."

*" One project that a contractor had been racing to finish this summer: a bridge and levee job right at the 17th Street Canal, site of the main breach on Monday."

*"The Newhouse News Service article published Tuesday night observed, "The Louisiana congressional delegation urged Congress earlier this year to dedicate a stream of federal money to Louisiana's coast, only to be opposed by the White House....In its budget, the Bush administration proposed a significant reduction in funding for southeast Louisiana's chief hurricane protection project. Bush proposed $10.4 million, a sixth of what local officials say they need."

Local officials are now saying, the article reported, that had Washington heeded their warnings about the dire need for hurricane protection, including building up levees and repairing barrier islands, "the damage might not have been nearly as bad as it turned out to be."" [Emphasis added.]

[scottb]

Hindsight is 20/20. If the government was spending millions on a levee project and terrorists were slamming planes into the city it would look pretty stupid.

Edited August 31, 2005 by scottb

[Free For All]

My wife was just in New Orleans (at a music convention) last spring. We were talking about that today- the city she saw will never be as it was then. If and when we see it again, it will be an entirely different place. My initial reaction was "maybe there shouldn't be a city in that location anymore" but after reconsideration I think it should be rebuilt. Where else could all those people go? What about those who owned property? Isn't the rebuilding of the city part of the morale healing process for those who lost everything?

Obviously it's a different tragedy than 9/11, but I get the same sad and empty feelings watching the coverage. Just unbelievable.

I get so angry at those who take advantage of the situation, like price gougers and especially looters. I understand that some people are just trying to get supplies for their family (diapers, medicine, food, etc.) but those who were carrying out electronics and other essentially useless but costly items really disgust me. The lowest of low.

I also didn't realize how much industry and commerce came through that port. Besides all the oil refineries there are many, many products for which we will likely be paying a lot more.

EDIT: Also, regarding rebuilding, it's such a valuable part of our culture, specifically the music we all love. It's hard to imagine the US without NO. I just don't know..............

Edited August 31, 2005 by Free For All

[scottb]

The only deepwater port in the United States served by six class one railroads. This gives port users direct and economical rail service to or from anywhere in the country. Also, is one of America’s leading general cargo ports, including the USA’s top market share for import steel, natural rubber, plywood and coffee.

[Guy Berger]

My wife was just in New Orleans (at a music convention) last spring. We were talking about that today- the city she saw will never be as it was then. If and when we see it again, it will be an entirely different place. My initial reaction was "maybe there shouldn't be a city in that location anymore" but after reconsideration I think it should be rebuilt. Where else could all those people go? What about those who owned property? Isn't the rebuilding of the city part of the morale healing process for those who lost everything?

Well, taxpayers will be forking over some of the money for much of the rebuilding, so they should have some of the say about where that money is used.

Guy

[Guy Berger]

The only deepwater port in the United States served by six class one railroads. This gives port users direct and economical rail service to or from anywhere in the country. Also, is one of America’s leading general cargo ports, including the USA’s top market share for import steel, natural rubber, plywood and coffee.

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This is a reason to potentially reconstruct the commercial areas of New Orleans, but not to put 500,000 residents there.

Guy

[BERIGAN]

William Gray has very little credibility. He has always been one of those obfuscating the "debate" on global warming, attempting to create the illusion of controversy where there is very little. While I admit that I can not prove it, I'd be willing to bet a *lot* that he is deep in someone's pocket.

August 30, 2005

Storms Vary With Cycles, Experts Say

By KENNETH CHANG

Because hurricanes form over warm ocean water, it is easy to assume that the recent rise in their number and ferocity is because of global warming.

But that is not the case, scientists say. Instead, the severity of hurricane seasons changes with cycles of temperatures of several decades in the Atlantic Ocean. The recent onslaught "is very much natural," said William M. Gray, a professor of atmospheric science at Colorado State University who issues forecasts for the hurricane season.

From 1970 to 1994, the Atlantic was relatively quiet, with no more than three major hurricanes in any year and none at all in three of those years. Cooler water in the North Atlantic strengthened wind shear, which tends to tear storms apart before they turn into hurricanes.

In 1995, hurricane patterns reverted to the active mode of the 1950's and 60's. From 1995 to 2003, 32 major hurricanes, with sustained winds of 111 miles per hour or greater, stormed across the Atlantic. It was chance, Dr. Gray said, that only three of them struck the United States at full strength.

Historically, the rate has been 1 in 3.

Then last year, three major hurricanes, half of the six that formed during the season, hit the United States. A fourth, Frances, weakened before striking Florida.

"We were very lucky in that eight-year period, and the luck just ran out," Dr. Gray said.

Global warming may eventually intensify hurricanes somewhat, though different climate models disagree.

In an article this month in the journal Nature, Kerry A. Emanuel, a hurricane expert at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, wrote that global warming might have already had some effect. The total power dissipated by tropical cyclones in the North Atlantic and North Pacific increased 70 to 80 percent in the last 30 years, he wrote.

But even that seemingly large jump is not what has been pushing the hurricanes of the last two years, Dr. Emanuel said, adding, "What we see in the Atlantic is mostly the natural swing."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/national...agewanted=print

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U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml

[medjuck]

Hindsight is 20/20.  If the government was spending millions on a levee project and terrorists  were slamming planes into the city it would look pretty stupid.

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As compared to spending billions invaiding a country that had nothing to do with slamming airplanes into US buildings? Thus saving bin laden-- a sworn enemy of Saddam-- the trouble of toppling him.

[Christiern]

Hindsight is 20/20.  If the government was spending millions on a levee project and terrorists  were slamming planes into the city it would look pretty stupid.

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As compared to spending billions invaiding a country that had nothing to do with slamming airplanes into US buildings? Thus saving bin laden-- a sworn enemy of Saddam-- the trouble of toppling him.

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Thanks for setting that Bush-level rationale straight, medjuck.

[rostasi]

My wife does work involving the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory

and those folks in association with NOAA claim that:

"...an 80 year build-up of atmospheric CO2 at 1%/yr (compounded) leads to roughly a one-half category increase in potential hurricane intensity on the Saffir-Simpson scale and an 18% increase in precipitation near the hurricane core..."

Anyway, increasingly filling our atmosphere with greenhouse gases

is not a good thing no matter how many people want to spin it in their warped direction.

[.:.impossible]

I am dreading the news over the coming weeks. This is not about politics people. This is real. As the day goes on, I have this sinking feeling that the aftermath and byproducts of this storm are increasingly worsening.

[Eric]

Hindsight is 20/20.  If the government was spending millions on a levee project and terrorists  were slamming planes into the city it would look pretty stupid.

←

As compared to spending billions invaiding a country that had nothing to do with slamming airplanes into US buildings? Thus saving bin laden-- a sworn enemy of Saddam-- the trouble of toppling him.

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Thanks for setting that Bush-level rationale straight, medjuck.

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Please go play in another forum.

[Dan Gould]

Hindsight is 20/20.  If the government was spending millions on a levee project and terrorists  were slamming planes into the city it would look pretty stupid.

←

As compared to spending billions invaiding a country that had nothing to do with slamming airplanes into US buildings? Thus saving bin laden-- a sworn enemy of Saddam-- the trouble of toppling him.

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Thanks for setting that Bush-level rationale straight, medjuck.

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Please go play in another forum.

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Word.

[Christiern]

Sometimes, even if it bothers one's sensibilities, politics enters into an issue without being forced there. This is one such case--sorry, but it only seems to bother people of one political persuasion. Do we really have to change forums every time Bush's name crops up? Why not simply skip posts/threads that don't deliberately hide certain facts?

Clearly, the focus of this thread is the tragedy that hit the Gulf Coast region. I think it was inevitable that someone would begin to look into how ill prepared New Orleans, for example was. That, in a very natural fashion, leads to such important details as pre-Katrina funding (or lack thereof). Also relevant is the possibility that global; warming played a part in creating the birth of Katrina. Now, just because a couple of you guys deem any criticism or hint of criticism of Bush to be a personal attack on your politics, I don't think we should need to don blinders and soft shoes.

I don't think there is a need to labor the point here, for it has already been made. I suggest that further discussion of the perceived Bush involvement in this tragedy deserves a thread of its own, but not the moving of this thread to spare the exaggerated sensibilities of a few. It's called reality--live with it

[Dan Gould]

I suggest that further discussion of the perceived Bush involvement in this tragedy deserves a thread of its own,

SNIP

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this is all the people who have posted have suggested. Take it to the other forum where politics belongs.

[JSngry]

I'm wondering how all the media are getting food, water, and functioning toilet facilities.

[JSngry]

I'm also wondering how Randy Newman's taking all this.

[Jim Alfredson]

Keep politics in the political forum, please. That's what its there for.

[trane_fanatic]

FWIW...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050901/music_...ina_concerts_dc

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) -

Three Louisiana-born stars -- Harry Connick Jr., Wynton Marsalis andTim McGraw -- will headline a televised charity concert to air live on Friday for victims of Hurricane Katrina, NBC said on Wednesday.

Plans for the one-hour, commercial-free show, called "A Concert for Hurricane Relief," were announced as the Bush administration and Congress began working on legislation to assist in hurricane recovery efforts.

"I am heartbroken by the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina in my home state," said country star McGraw, born in Delhi, Louisiana, in a statement. "It's at times like these that each of us must work together to provide life-saving aid to those in terrible need."

Joining McGraw are two New Orleans natives, trumpet player Marsalis and jazz singer Connick, whose hometown was left largely submerged in floodwaters.

In addition to music, the special will feature appearances by movie star Leonardo DiCaprio and other celebrities.

Separately, cable channel MTV and sister networks VH1 and CMT plan to simulcast a live hurricane-relief special on September 10 featuring such acts as Green Day,Alicia Keys, John Mellencamp and the Dave Matthews Band.

And veteran entertainer Jerry Lewis said he would devote a portion of his annual Labor Day telethon for the Muscular Dystrophy Association, which starts on Sunday, to hurricane recovery. Lewis said the association has pledged $1 million to help storm victims.

Katrina has claimed more than 200 lives, left tens of thousands of people homeless and caused billions of dollars in damage since slamming into the U.S. Gulf Coast on Monday.

NBC aired a similar star-studded charity concert in January that raised more than $18 million for survivors of the tsunami that killed hudreds of thousands of people and left millions more homeless in South Asia and East Africa. An estimated 19.5 million viewers tuned in to some part of that broadcast on NBC and its sibling cable TV outlets.

Both efforts were reminiscent of a two-hour telethon carried by all four major U.S. TV networks 10 days after the September 11, 2001, attacks on America. That special raised more than $150 million in pledges

Edited September 1, 2005 by trane_fanatic