God I hope this story is overblown right now!!!

[scottb]

Finally got through to my sister in Baton Rouge, things there are pretty crazy there as well. The population doubled essentially overnight. Before influx somewhere around 350,000, Greater BR area around 500,000.

Schools are closed indefinitely and are trying to figure out how to make room for 40,000 new students, already bad traffic conditions just got a whole lot worse, gas shortages, grocery shortages (one of my sisters hasn't been able to find any bread for 3 days, the other took three trips to get milk and luckily got some meat because the delivery truck had just come.) increased crime with reports of hold ups, car jackings etc and general unrest both in and out of the shelters.

[Aggie87]

Baton Rouge still apparently has no electricity, as well. I just spoke to a friend of mine who lives there...his family has a generator, so they are able to keep the refrigerator going at least. They don't know how long they'll be without electricity there though.

Another friend of mine lives in northern LA, but she grew up in New Orleans. Her parent's home there is totally destroyed, as is the house she grew up in (different one).

When they finally get the flood problem solved, what will people be able to go back to?

[catesta]

I'm glad your sisters are safe.

Things in Baton Rouge sound bad.

[rostasi]

Gosh, you know, I can just see this large Democrat leaning group of people

being spread out now over the country. No concentrated group of "liberals"

in Louisiana anymore, eh? Wow, what a gift!

Edited September 2, 2005 by rostasi

[RainyDay]

Does anyone know anything about Hammond? I have a friend I haven't heard from since Sunday. I'm sure (please) she is all right but does anyone know what is going on there? Was there extensive damage? I only found one article online. Thanks.

[rostasi]

Dan, I don't understand how you cannot make the obvious connects

to Bush and this administration.

Yes, of course, our involvement in Iraq and

our response to Katrina are inextricably linked: manpower, equipment, CASH!

Also, the argument about Bush, global warming and the hurricane

has to do with this administrations desire to ignore scientific facts

and try to pull the wool over the public's eyes about climate change.

This disaster is another proof (do we really need any more?)

that we are heading downhill when it comes to our environment

and we have a group of people who could care less about our future -

yes, they care about their future,

but when money could be used to, at least, attempt

to cut emissions or an attempt is made to better the conditions

in N.O. before a major disaster strikes (sound familiar?)

and it is not - actually, when money is CUT -

then you have a callous, arrogant, group of people who claim to

have a "leader."

Moore makes an excellent point - it's just that you are missing it.

It really doesn't matter which direction the storm is going at any last minute, hour, etc.

It doesn't matter what the NYTimes thinks may or may not happen with a levee.

It is the fact that we are supposed to be PREPARED for this possibility!

If we have an earthquake in California next week -

something that you can't generally predict as to time -

we should STILL have a plan - especially since we know of it's possibility!

[BERIGAN]

Guys, I hope we can keep this civil, I really do. It won't do any good to get made at each other, it won't change a thing.(Just trying to stop something before it starts)

People LOVE to point fingers, and since many hate the president here, it must ALL be his fault. Well, he did declare an emergency BEFORE the Hurricane hit, which is almost unprecedented. What did the State and local officials do to prepare for this event? This is what, the 3rd time folks had been brought to the Superdome? There could have been 70,000 there Sunday night, there were something like 10,000 at first. Why wasn't the center of the dome filled, just fucking filled with Food, water, medical supplies? Or if that wasn't possible, the upper regions of the stadium where they never did have people.

EVERY level of the government did not react quickly enough, can we all agree on that? The state and local governments are the first responders, and there are many reasons why they couldn't react faster(Flooding, trying to save those still trapped in an area of encompassing 200 square miles) but they didn't seem to know what the hell to do, except ask for help, which of course they should. They were overwhelmed, and so was FEMA I imagine. But there must have been something the locals could have done in conjunction the police, since they weren't locking people up...but they couldn't contact anyone, since the communication systems were all down...hell, I don't know for sure, who does?

I heard Biloxi was about to run out of medical supplies and that was a few hours ago, anyone hear anything more about this? This is such an amazingly widespread problem...

Perhaps we should all get away from the computer for awhile, and see what if anything we can do to help the soon to be former residents of N.O. Between Louisiana and Mississippi there are well over a million homeless Americans right now....

[Soul Stream]

It looks to me that things are on track now. It took a while, but help seems to have arrived. Like one of the victims said about the arriving guard and aid, "I didn't feel like I lived in America anymore. But now I do."

And that's what we all wanted to see happen. I'm pretty happy with what I've seen has been done today. To my knowledge, the Superdome and Convention Center have both been evacuated. That's real progress.

There's a lot of people working themselves to exhaustion to help these people.

[minew]

Finally got through to my sister in Baton Rouge, things there are pretty crazy there as well.  The population doubled essentially overnight.  Before influx somewhere around 350,000, Greater BR area around 500,000.

Schools are closed indefinitely and are trying to figure out how to make room for 40,000 new students, already bad traffic conditions just got a whole lot worse, gas shortages, grocery shortages (one of my sisters hasn't been able to find any bread for 3 days, the other took three trips to get milk and luckily got some meat because the delivery truck had just come.) increased crime with reports of hold ups, car jackings etc and general unrest both in and out of the shelters.

←

This is the next phase. If you draw a line from Houston to Jackson to Pensacola, you outline the area that has accepted probably 80-90% of the refugees and is very stressed. That's a diaspora of almost a million people. Baton Rouge has accepted more than other. The whole region is very stressed and these are the areas that will need help next. Food, water, gas,and medical personnel need to start flowing to those areas. Should we call FEMA and let them know or can we rely on them to think of it for themselves?

[minew]

The thing that concerns me about all of this is just this: hypotheically, let's say that the levee breaks were terrorist actions, and there were no hurricane.

What would the aid response look like?  Would there have been the same level of confusion and delay?  If a couple of car bombs were set off next to the levees would things be different?  Would aid have been there sooner than five days?  The Office of Homeland Security has a classification for natural disaster; i don't recall what it is right now, but they have thought about it.

It would seem to me that the president, again, speaking hypothetically, should be taking a SERIOUS leadership role here.  Get in near to the trouble as safely as possible.  Pull all-nighters.  No one sleeps until the enormous resources we have put into the Office of Homeland Security are put in place to aid people as fast as is humanly possible.

If I can send a Fed-Ex across the country overnight, there is NO fucking reason this kind of thing should happen.  If this is the best and quickest response that the Office of Homeland Security has to offer, then I fear the day even more than ever should another terrorist attack happen in the US.

←

Do you think if armed gangs of Al Qaeda were roaming the streets it would take 3 days to restore security?

[RDK]

Did anyone see the NBC donation/benefit special? Caught part of the east coast feed on CNBC... and I'd guess that Kanye West went way off script. Not good at all (in this context).

[WD45]

The thing that concerns me about all of this is just this: hypotheically, let's say that the levee breaks were terrorist actions, and there were no hurricane.

What would the aid response look like?  Would there have been the same level of confusion and delay?  If a couple of car bombs were set off next to the levees would things be different?  Would aid have been there sooner than five days?  The Office of Homeland Security has a classification for natural disaster; i don't recall what it is right now, but they have thought about it.

It would seem to me that the president, again, speaking hypothetically, should be taking a SERIOUS leadership role here.  Get in near to the trouble as safely as possible.  Pull all-nighters.  No one sleeps until the enormous resources we have put into the Office of Homeland Security are put in place to aid people as fast as is humanly possible.

If I can send a Fed-Ex across the country overnight, there is NO fucking reason this kind of thing should happen.  If this is the best and quickest response that the Office of Homeland Security has to offer, then I fear the day even more than ever should another terrorist attack happen in the US.

←

Do you think if armed gangs of Al Qaeda were roaming the streets it would take 3 days to restore security?

←

My thoughts exactly.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Now that's just stupid - you want to compare distressed U.S. citizens who have suffered a natural disaster with enemy terrorists? You want the National Guard to just shoot first and ask questions later?

Mike

[minew]

Now that's just stupid - you want to compare distressed U.S. citizens who have suffered a natural disaster with enemy terrorists? You want the National Guard to just shoot first and ask questions later?

Mike

←

What I meant to say was would it take three days to have military on the streets.

And, though I didn't intend to compare them to terrorists, now that you bring it up, the gangs that are driving trucks full of armed men - the 7th Ward Soldiers and their ilk - shooting people and raping them in a time of crisis, actually do constitute a greater threat to me and my city than "enemy terrorists," whoever they are.

[Soul Stream]

...yeah, I think Kanye West went off-script a bit. Unless, that is, Michael Moore is on the NBC writing staff these days.

P.S.---I thought Mike Meyers head was going to explode during that rant.

[Guy Berger]

In either case, the people are / would be in need.  It makes no difference what the cause was; aid and security should be swift.

←

From a psychological standpoint, I think the two are quite different. More similar on substantive grounds.

Guy

Edited September 3, 2005 by Guy

[Soul Stream]

After watching much coverage tonight, I think we a treading in very unsafe waters so to speak on one issue. That is race. Usually, I would be the first one to stand up and say NOLA was neglected because of race. But, let's be realistic here. Let's not confuse an ill conceived, under-planned and under-enacted government response with racism. I think this is heading in a dangerous direction on T.V. Not to say we don't have major racism problems in the country. I just don't think this was/is one of them.

Even Wynton is saying it's sheer racism on the government's part. That seems very out of character for someone in his position. And if he's saying such a thing in the media, that's not a good sign.

The last thing I want is survivors to think that white america didn't care. As far as I can tell that is just not the case.

Edited September 3, 2005 by Soul Stream

[minew]

There is some back story to the violence that really hasn't been discussed except in local media. In the year or two before the storm, violence, especially gang/retributory violence, had been escalating sharply in New Orleans. Most people have attributed this to a redistribution of populations from razed housing developments into other neighborhoods. New Orleans gang culture is very much neighborhood or ward based. The federal (Hope Six, I think) program removed all residents from 'failed' housing developments and resettled them all over the city. That's when the wars over territory and drug markets started and it peaked this summer. We had at least several murders a day and some days with six or seven. (in a city of 500,000!) Almost all of it plagued the same communities that were most likely not to evacuate because of lack of means.

Now, some of these heavily armed gangs have the sense that they control parts of the city. A lot of the looting, raping, and sniping is an assertion of that control, in the face of authorities and rivals. After my concern about those who are suffering and dying now and my concern about our ability to reconstruct the city, I am concerned most about the aftershocks of this violence. Race relations in New Orleans were far from perfect or even decent. But it seemed like, slowly, over generations, we were working out mechanisms to deal with it. Moreover, black and white New Orleanians have always had to have ways of interacting with one another because we live amongst one another in ways that most other, esp. northern, cities don't. My fear is that the tension, fear, anger, and anxiety felt by both blacks and whites about this violence will change the racial 'dna' of the city for the worse and make it a less 'easy' place to live.

[Guy Berger]

After watching much coverage tonight, I think we a treading in very unsafe waters so to speak on one issue.  That is race.  Usually, I would be the first one to stand up and say NOLA was neglected because of race.  But, let's be realistic here.  Let's not confuse an ill conceived, under-planned and under-enacted government response with racism.  I think this is heading in a dangerous direction on T.V.  Not to say we don't have major racism problems in the country.  I just don't think this was/is one of them.

While there's obviously a race angle to the tragedy unfolding in NO, I'm guessing that it has a lot more to do with income and class.

Guy

[minew]

After watching much coverage tonight, I think we a treading in very unsafe waters so to speak on one issue.  That is race.  Usually, I would be the first one to stand up and say NOLA was neglected because of race.  But, let's be realistic here.  Let's not confuse an ill conceived, under-planned and under-enacted government response with racism.  I think this is heading in a dangerous direction on T.V.  Not to say we don't have major racism problems in the country.  I just don't think this was/is one of them.

While there's obviously a race angle to the tragedy unfolding in NO, I'm guessing that it has a lot more to do with income and class.

Guy

←

We expect that from an economist. You should get over to the Anthro. and Soc. departments more often.

[Guy Berger]

After watching much coverage tonight, I think we a treading in very unsafe waters so to speak on one issue.  That is race.  Usually, I would be the first one to stand up and say NOLA was neglected because of race.  But, let's be realistic here.  Let's not confuse an ill conceived, under-planned and under-enacted government response with racism.  I think this is heading in a dangerous direction on T.V.  Not to say we don't have major racism problems in the country.  I just don't think this was/is one of them.

While there's obviously a race angle to the tragedy unfolding in NO, I'm guessing that it has a lot more to do with income and class.

Guy

←

We expect that from an economist. You should get over to the Anthro. and Soc. departments more often.

←

Actually, I was wearing my statistics hat this time around.

Guy

[Soul Stream]

O.K. I guess I was wrong. From Nightline...The Convention Center is not evacuated. Also, nobody is being picked up along a huge stretch of I-10

excuse me while I yell....

CAN WE GET SOME FUCKING BUSES OVER ON I-GODDAMN-10 TO PICK UP THESE PEOPLE GODDAMN IT. THIS IS FUCKING RIDICULOUS. I'M ABOUT TO GET IN MY CAR AND GO DOWN I-10 AND PICKUP AT LEAST SOMEBODY!!!!!!!

I thought things were getting better. Help was on the way. Is there just not enough help to be had?????? I refuse to believe that. Is there really continuing to happen????

Another Photo-Op today with hollow promises it seems. Situation Normal All Fucked Up.

[Jazzmoose]

After watching much coverage tonight, I think we a treading in very unsafe waters so to speak on one issue.  That is race.  Usually, I would be the first one to stand up and say NOLA was neglected because of race.  But, let's be realistic here.  Let's not confuse an ill conceived, under-planned and under-enacted government response with racism.  I think this is heading in a dangerous direction on T.V.  Not to say we don't have major racism problems in the country.  I just don't think this was/is one of them.

While there's obviously a race angle to the tragedy unfolding in NO, I'm guessing that it has a lot more to do with income and class.

Guy

←

And of course, income and class never have anything to do with race...

[JSngry]

C'mon dude, you know that nothing has anything to do with anything else. It's a freakin' miracle that anything ever happens at all!

[Guy Berger]

After watching much coverage tonight, I think we a treading in very unsafe waters so to speak on one issue.  That is race.  Usually, I would be the first one to stand up and say NOLA was neglected because of race.  But, let's be realistic here.  Let's not confuse an ill conceived, under-planned and under-enacted government response with racism.  I think this is heading in a dangerous direction on T.V.  Not to say we don't have major racism problems in the country.  I just don't think this was/is one of them.

While there's obviously a race angle to the tragedy unfolding in NO, I'm guessing that it has a lot more to do with income and class.

Guy

←

And of course, income and class never have anything to do with race...

←

I didn't say that.

Guy