what is it I'm not getting about Soulive?

[CJ Shearn]

I see they are releasing a new album on Concord soon, and I fail to be excited about anything they put out. Five years ago I d/l stuff from their studio EP at the time for a taste and I was unimpressed, after hearing about the hype surrounding their then new release "Doin Somethin" When I was in college, I was part of the Harpur Jazz Project at Binghamton University, where we brought Soulive to a local joint cosponsored by the venue. Of course the aim was for the kids into jambands and they mightily suceeded with that goal, I did not go b/c I was not interested. The only song I ever liked of theirs was "Turn it Out" because of a long Benson-ish guitar solo. And it seems when I've talked to fans of Soulive about other organists (JOS, McDuff, Dr. Lonnie, etc) they have no clue or don't care. The players in Soulive are great at keeping a groove but theres not enough meat in it for me, certainly not like Organissimo, who are doing far more interesting things in the organ trio realm. So anybody who has listened to them, what is it about Soulive I'm missing?

Edited August 28, 2005 by CJ Shearn

[Soul Stream]

I think the guys in Soulive a really good musicians. I know the organist has a monsterous left hand for funk bass which is amazing. That said, the formula they've come up with is ...strong on funk, long on heads, tightly arranged, but short on improvisation or diversity. That's a winning formula for college kids wanting to party, but runs a bit thin for somebody that's been listening to Jimmy Smith or Sonny Rollins, ect....

However, it IS nice to see an organ trio, no matter what they're doing, being that big playing purely instrumental music. Now THAT'S amazing!

[CJ Shearn]

true, that is an achievement in itself being that big playing music without vocals. Although I am in that age bracket of most Soulive fans, just out of college, I grew up on Jimmy Smith so my outlook can seem a little closed minded and condescending to some.

[Soul Stream]

I always find it odd that the same kids who are so into "jam bands" are bored out of their skulls when listening to any sort of modern jazz. Of course, maybe these jam bands are creating future jazz listeners as these kids age and begin to open up a bit.

[CJ Shearn]

yeah I find that too, its interesting, you stick anything that doesn't have a funky groove in their face and its like "what?!"

[JSngry]

Whatever is is that you're not getting, I'm not getting it either. How these guys get lumped together with MMW is beyond me.

Then again, some people lump Count Basie and Harry James together, so I guess it just goes to show ya'...

[Soul Stream]

I think part of what "we" are not getting is that these guys spring up from the hip hop generation. Beats and repeatition are at the basis of that kind of music, thus it's a major part of what Soulive does. However, I rented my B3 to Soulive once and saw up close just how phenomenal that organists left hand basslines were. He's definatley surpased what Leon Spencer Jr. was doing with his left hand back in the funky day. But to get the left THAT funky, you HAVE to sacrifice your right hand when soloing....the addition of a great sax player would make that band a lot better imho.

[Soulstation1]

i've never heard anything from soulive

not even a music clip from tower

[JSngry]

....the addition of a great sax player would make that band a lot better imho.

←

It wouldn't even have to be a great one...

[CJ Shearn]

apparently they do have a horn section live at times. But, when I saw a live video on BET Jazz of a tune called "Lenny" despite interesting use of a fretless bass sample by Neal Evans, the tune was incredibly boring, not much going on over a slowly building bluesy melody and a couple chords.

Edited August 28, 2005 by CJ Shearn

[Soul Stream]

apparently they do have a horn section live at times.  But, when I saw a live video on BET Jazz of a tune called "Lenny" despite interesting use of a fretless bass sample by Neal Evans, the tune was incredibly boring, not much going on over a slowly building bluesy melody and a couple chords.

←

"Lenny" is the old Stevie Ray Vaughan tune. I remember hearing that they covered it. Seems like an odd choice, but no doubt the guitarist probably brought that one in. Maybe next they could cover "I Believe I Could Fly" like James Carter's organ trio.

[CJ Shearn]

oh, thank you. I did not know that about that tune. LOL, JC covered R. Kelly?

[sal]

I always find it odd that the same kids who are so into "jam bands" are bored out of their skulls when listening to any sort of modern jazz.  Of course, maybe these jam bands are creating future jazz listeners as these kids age and begin to open up a bit.

←

I have a one word explanation to the question you pose, Soul Stream. Drugs.

And you are absolutely right in your second statement. I was one of those kids. Had it not been for Phish, the Dead, String Cheese Incident, Soulive, etc.....I would not like jazz today. They introduced me to improvisation (perhaps on a lower level most of the time), and through them, I discovered jazz.

Don't need drugs to enjoy jazz!

Edited August 28, 2005 by sal

[chuckyd4]

[md655321]

I love jam bands, and was raised in a hip hop generation. I dont get Soulive either.

Its cause they suck.

[CJ Shearn]

haha, guess so

[Jazz Kat]

I used to be a Soulive freak like, a couple of weeks ago, and a couple of months before that. They groove like mother fuckers! The things I don't like about them is that, sometimes, they put real hip hop tunes on their with rappers as special guest stars. However, I think it's great that a band that doesn't really play jazz, and that is on the hip hop scene, can use improv and jazz elements into their playing.

I don't see that much wrong with Soulive, except that they got their basic hip hop beat that they definately perfected, but they don't seem to be versatile. The drumer hasn't used brushes on one song they ever recorded yet, no latin rhythms, no swinging, (except for a song called Joe Sample which appeared on the Doin' Something album) no use of percussion, not much use of dynamics, etc. I just think that some of their melodies are pretty creative. Cashes Dream from the Get Down album has a pretty catchy hook, and the rest of the album is pretty good. That is a good album. Their best ever. The next one Doin Somethin' had a few songs that were catchy, and had some horns in them. But their third studio release, Next was pretty pitiful.

Their new album is due in September. They have moved from Blue Note to Concord, and I'll probaly get the new album to see where they're going, and as this point, it looks the saxophonist isn't an official member, as he doesn't even appear on the cover of the new album coming out.

I'll spend my time listening to some classic Blue Notes, but it's nice to hear some modern stuff.

[Guest akanalog]

hippie kids are like lemmings when it comes to music.

follow the leader.

or like goldfish i guess-in their little bowl and eat what is fed directly to them.

for all the talk of open mindedness and diversity, hippie kids only don't really seek out much music. things need to be presented to them, and also presented in a way that shows it is approved of (a bill frisell CD being played over the PA at a phish show during intermission/michael ray performing with phish).

also since the idea of the live show is so appealing, hippie kids are less likely to search out older music which they can't see live.

i don't think soulive is anyones idea of drug music. it isn't about that. it's about soulive being here now and a touring and marketed entity and i am sure they opened for john scofield at some point (who got his approval by playing with medeski martin and wood, who got their approval by being connected to phish) or played at bonerroo or whatever it is called with trey anastasio and ween and whomever.

[Jazz Kat]

Yeah, I mean what teen wouldn't like Soulive's image. I can groove to that music, but that's pretty much it.

[md655321]

hippie kids are like lemmings when it comes to music.

follow the leader.

or like goldfish i guess-in their little bowl and eat what is fed directly to them.

for all the talk of open mindedness and diversity, hippie kids only don't really seek out much music.  things need to be presented to them, and also presented in a way that shows it is approved of (a bill frisell CD being played over the PA at a phish show during intermission/michael ray performing with phish).

also since the idea of the live show is so appealing, hippie kids are less likely to search out older music which they can't see live.

i don't think soulive is anyones idea of drug music.  it isn't about that.  it's about soulive being here now and a touring and marketed entity and i am sure they opened for john scofield at some point (who got his approval by playing with medeski martin and wood, who got their approval by being connected to phish) or played at bonerroo or whatever it is called with trey anastasio and ween and whomever.

←

While I will admit that some of what you are saying is accurate, you are using a fairly wide a derogatory brush to paint an entire movment. Many hippie kids are very open to new music and do try to search it out, and many jazz cds are bought by these people. Of course it is unfortunate that jazz isnt more popoular among these crowds, but for alot of them it isnt about the improvisation but the energy of the artists. Thats why Soulive or live Miles is usually much more popular with "hippies" than Sonny Clark records. And I say this as someone who has attended every Bonnaroo and has nearly 100 Phish cds. These people aren't lemmings, they are simply people who aren't in to the softer sound of jazz, especially when they do not get to see the artists live..

[Soul Stream]

Testosterone is the same whether guised in a backwards baseball hat, baggy-G trousers or a tie dye t-shirt. Let's face it, for the most part music fans are young men, and for the most part that means a lot of male peacock flambouyance needs to be part of thier musical message.

[CJ Shearn]

It isn't fair to generalize the group of ppl who listen to Soulive, I admit that. But as far as "hippie kids" go, the stereotype in my experience was true. Guys and girls, that if you try to expose them to straight ahead or any form of post bop jazz its like "aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!" ::runs away::

[Guest akanalog]

i am not saying the hippies are scared of that stuff, just that connections need to be made for them. it's like connecting the dots.

for instance phish began playing "back at the chicken shack" for a bit a few years ago. since phish played it, hippies began to be curious about the song which lead them to find out that jimmy smith was the original composer which lead them to finding out about the album "back at the chicken shack" which lead them to find out about blue note records. if phish hadn't played it, it's doubtful hippies would have discovered it so easily.

and phish has definitely played miles davis ("kind of blue") as intermission music during their shows and jerry garcia definitely name checked both john coltrane and miles davis in interviews which has lead to some expoloration of those men.

if you asked a few hippies what there favorite jazz albums are or for some recommendations for some jazz albums i am sure you would get something like this

medeski martin and wood-a go go

miles davis-kind of blue

john coltrane-a love surpreme

[Guest akanalog]

though i guess if you were into the dead you would get more sophisticated jazz exploration because they played with people like david murray and ornette coleman so that is sort of setting you off on a higher level.

[md655321]

In my experience "hippies" are open to all music (usually even rap.) I dont even know anyone who ive played jazz for that disliked it. The might not openly seek it, but most dig it.