kh1958 Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 I like his small group recordings (New Ideas especially) and never paid any attention to his big band--but, I recently picked up Live in 3-2/3 4 Time--and that is, unexpectedly to me, a very compelling record. Ellis plays very well on this one. I don't know about the rest of the big band's recordings, but this one I would definitely recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 There always *something* of interest on the later records. Starting with the "Goes Underground" record, the pop elements started getting more and more prominent. Do you really need to hear Don Ellis play Gilbert O'Sullivan's "Alone Again, Naturally" - well, if you do, you can (on the album "Connection"). The earlier Columbias are still kind of dated because of the rock/Indian/electric aspects, but if you like the Pacific Jazz big band ones, you certainly won't hate them. The other thing that's a little worrisome is how his liner notes are so damned sincere. He really believes that what he's doing is the absolute greatest thing ever. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 There always *something* of interest on the later records. Starting with the "Goes Underground" record, the pop elements started getting more and more prominent...The earlier Columbias are still kind of dated because of the rock/Indian/electric aspects, but if you like the Pacific Jazz big band ones, you certainly won't hate them. ← But even that one has the splendid "Bulgarian Bulge"! And the whole rock/Indian/electric is often what retains my interest today. The "Hey Jude" on Fillmore goes beyond gimmickry into the realm of the genuinely warped, and the "Indian Lady" on Autumn is simply one of the greatest big band performances on record, period. In my opinion, of course. Agreed, though, that the pop element started taking over, and that was...unfortunate. That and the elements of "gimmickry" (which, in this case, I'll define as a new idea not fully thought out/mulled over/etc and subsequently presented in nothing resembling an organic form) are rampant. But when it works, it works gloriously. However, I don't have, but have heard, the later MPS Haiku, and it is pretty darn interesting indeed. Very organic, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenLowe Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 (edited) I once aske Jaki Byard about Ellis - what he said is quite interesting (and this is a direct quote): "Great musician - ignored because he was white." Edited August 28, 2005 by AllenLowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 I have Essence on LP - not too expensive, I think I paid what a CD would cost - and it has always been a favorite. Gene Stone had a place in Topanga Canyon where Sonny Simmons lived for a while, and they practiced daily which led to The Cry. This and the New Jazz are the ones I reach for, then the Candid, then... You can still get Heckman's Improvisational Jazz Workshop LP (Ictus 101) from Cadence for like $12. The pressing is garbage, but the music is good. Of course, it's not the original with the hand-silkscreened cover and book, but still a reasonably vintage issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 "reasonably vintage" - isn't that like "somewhat pregnant"? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 (edited) That "other" Candid album - wasn't that released as Out of Nowhere? Paul Bley and Steve Swallow are his partners here - this makes great comparison to the Jimmy Giuffre sesssions of the time. Ellis was a highly original trumpeter - that heavies like Mingus and Russell hired him speaks for itself. I can recommend them both - the other one which was released at the time has Jaki Byard, Ron Carter and Charli Persip. Edited August 28, 2005 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 No, reportedly there is yet ANOTHER session for Candid, a quintet. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 No, reportedly there is yet ANOTHER session for Candid, a quintet. Mike ← So, give details if you have 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Wish I had some. Album title "Improvisations". Unknown as, p, b, d. Believed to be from 1960, one tune by Arif Mardin. That is all. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rostasi Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 There's also an album from the Columbia Music of Our Time series that's conducted by Leonard Bernstein with pieces by Ligeti, Morton Feldman, and our very own UNT professor Larry Austin that has Ellis playing on it (and Barre Phillips too!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 i know that for me, ellis' music has been presented with a very unappealing gimmicky veneer and also with a tacked on exoticness (weird instrumentation and time signatures which has made me avoid it. also besides the new jazz album which i bought, a very unappealing group of sidemen generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Your issue with the sidemen perplexes me - do you mean that you know these folks and their music and it doesn't appeal to you? Because if you do like the New Ideas album, there's more than just that. How Time Passes is the same band minus Al Francis. I would imagine if you like New Ideas you would probably like all the early small group stuff, including Essence. Now, as for the California big band - do you find the sidemen unappealing because you know them or because you don't know them? While there are some bigger name people in that band (Joe Roccisano, Tom Scott, Frank Strozier, John Klemmer, Ted Nash, Fred Selden, Glenn Ferris, George Bohanon, Mike Lang, Ralph Humphrey, Jay Graydon, Milcho Leviev, for example) - if you consider those "bigger name" - but I'd say the majority of the sidemen are NOT known for anything else. Certainly Ellis was interested in stretching boundaries of instrumentation and he explored things like odd meter and microtonality - if such experimentation doesn't interest you, that's fine. But I don't think it was "tacked on" - he spent time seriously studying ethnomusicology and composition. Was it exotic - absolutely, but there was some foundation. His music can be seen as evolving from things that Kenton, Mingus, Sauter-Finegan, Brubeck, and others did. Ellis knew his history. I'm sure others can name more antecedents. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Very pleased to find a thread about this reissue this morning. I had somehow missed the earlier thread about Mighty Quinn, so when I stumbled upon a promo/used copy of this disc on Saturday I was rather shocked. I vaguely recall that this had been rumored as a "lost Connoisseur" or something like that, so the title jumped out at me... but I had no clue as to who/what Mighty Quinn was or why this was released with no fanfare on this board (obviously, I just missed the fanfare). Anyway, as others have noted, this is a really terrific disc. "Ostinato" jumps out as a fast fav, but the whole thing is interesting. Love the many different tempos and sound textures, all coming from what's essentially a trumpet quartet. Looking forward to more MQ discs in the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 i would certainly like to hear more early stuff, mike, i look forward to hearing those candid albums. as far as the later stuff goes-hearing a bunch of well coached music school cats playing tricky charts isn't why i listen to the jazz. i might as well go put on an emil richards side. though some of these characters have given me pleasure on many a john klemmer impulse side when i need that itch scratched. i do like ralph humphrey's stiff style in perhaps the most challenging (and my favorite) of zappa's ensembles (in '73). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 There's also an album from the Columbia Music of Our Time series that's conducted by Leonard Bernstein with pieces by Ligeti, Morton Feldman, and our very own UNT professor Larry Austin that has Ellis playing on it (and Barre Phillips too!) Great LP, and it also sports one of the most eye-abusing Op Art LP covers ever designed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rostasi Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 There's also an album from the Columbia Music of Our Time series that's conducted by Leonard Bernstein with pieces by Ligeti, Morton Feldman, and our very own UNT professor Larry Austin that has Ellis playing on it (and Barre Phillips too!) Great LP, and it also sports one of the most eye-abusing Op Art LP covers ever designed. ← Yup! I think it's a Bridget Riley artwork? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Would someone please post the track timings of the new cd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Would someone please post the track timings of the new cd? ← From the back of the CD: Johnny Come Lately 4:51 Slow Space 4:30 Ostinato 7:00 Donkey 4:34 Form 10:15 Angel Eyes 4:18 Irony 5:07 Lover 3:20 The times listed on AMG are slightly different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Thanks a bunch. I was forced to sell most of my lps a while ago, made tapes and recently transferred them to cdrs. At some point my cassette deck started slowing down and I wanted to know if this disc was one of them. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_M Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Anybody interested in the technical aspects of Ellis' work should download the dissertation from Johns Hopkins University, entitled "The Exotic Rhythms Of Don Ellis," by Sean Fenlon. More information than most people would ever want. http://www.donellismusic.com/Dissertation/dissertation.html My personal opinion is that his three early big band recordings, Indian Lady, Live at Monterey and Live in 3 and 3/4 Time were near masterpieces. Unfortunately, he then turned his efforts to attracting the college crowd, and things went down hill. However, as someone pointed out, all of his recordings had something to offer. Too bad he died so early (heart failure). Who knows what he might have achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rostasi Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Man! 215(!) pages of... of... ...(I don't know yet...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 215 & 3/4... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis_M Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Correction to my previous post: "Indian Lady" is a cut on the album "Electric Bath". Also, "Live in 3 and 3/4 Time" is really "Live in (3 2/3)/4 Time. Not that I could tell the difference.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 How is "Electric Bath"? I've never heard that one. Is it worth picking up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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