So, you don't like jazz vocals...

[rostasi]

I like vocals.  And if Andy Bey isn't jazz, I guess I like nonjazz vocals as well.

Mark? I think you read my post wrong - try it again.

Bey is definitely a jazz vocalist!

Edited August 26, 2005 by rostasi

[Rosco]

I sort of 'came round' to jazz singing.

There was a time when I had little use for vocals in jazz (and in fact tended to prefer non-jazz singers; Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, Al Green etc *).

Then I gradually found myself more interested in singers for some reason. Maybe because as a saxophonist I started to explore more 'standards' repertoire I started to get into the songs first and the singers after. Nowadays I often listen to Billie, Ella, Sarah, Eckstine, Hartman, Shirley Horn, Nat Cole and the man who invented jazz singing, Louis Armstrong.

Now whenever I'm learning a new standard tune I always try and search out a singer's interpretation of it to get a feel for the intention of the lyric. Ben Webster and Dexter Gordon were right; knowing a song's lyric helps a lot in interpreting it as an instrumentalist. Yes, some of the lyrics seem trite now; equally some of them are so damn beautiful there are times I wished I sang!

*Always been able to listen to Sinatra but then he was in a category of his own.

Oh, and you're not alone, Big Deal. I can't get on with opera either. Philistine.

[Guest akanalog]

i dont like vocals in any kind of music. this is probably why i don't listen to rock music at all really. in jazz, i feel most times having a singer overshadows or otherwise stifles what i enjoy about the music and also i guess in a way literally "literalizes" the music in a way i don't like. it turns great musicians into sidemen and having a strong lead voice takes away from the voices i enjoy most-the "conversation" between the musicians as they improvise and jam.

i also get visions of people like kurt elling in my head.

also how was kenny dorham as a singer. i always imagined his vocal work must be pretty decent.

i do like wordless vocals when used as some sort of accompanying instrument.

an example of that would be my AOW pick a few weeks ago-eberhard weber's "the colours of chloe".

[Jazzmoose]

I like vocals.  And if Andy Bey isn't jazz, I guess I like nonjazz vocals as well.

Mark? I think you read my post wrong - try it again.

Bey is definitely a jazz vocalist!

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Oops......

[Noj]

Joe Williams and Slim Gaillard are early favorites in a realm I've scarcely peeked into. I've got a few scattered albums, the Coltrane/Johnny Hartman and some Pops and some Ella. Just more to explore. Andy Bey I've enjoyed in a funkier context with Gary Bartz, but I wasn't feeling him elsewhere. But hell, I like all types of singing/talking genres from rock to soul to reggae to rap to Cuban traditional...

I'm a fan of odd speaking moments like Sweets' hilarious voice on "Open The Door, Richard."

'Sweets, did you hear what the lady said? She said you sure look common out there in the street.'

'Common? Man, I got class I ain't even used yet.'

[Dan Gould]

I'm a fan of odd speaking moments like Sweets' hilarious voice on "Open The Door, Richard." 

'Sweets, did you hear what the lady said?  She said you sure look common out there in the street.' 

'Common?  Man, I got class I ain't even used yet.'

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What recording is that?

[Noj]

Count Basie "Open The Door, Richard" as provided by RDK on BFT#11 Bonus Disc. Am I confused and it isn't Sweets? I'll go back in the Blindfold Test threads and have a look...

[Noj]

RDK:

Blindfold Test #11 Bonus Disc

2. “Open the Door, Richard” Count Basie

The Basie version of this hit, from 1947. It’s on RCA Victor, which is why it’s so damn hard to find.

[Kalo]

Seems like there's plenty love for vocalists on this board.

Most controversial are the white males: Chet Baker, Woody Herman, even Sinatra.

I have to admit that I have trouble with the first (love his trumpet, however), can tolerate the second, and am a big fan of the third.

Vocals can be an acquired taste, but one well worth acquiring. I am a fan of vocals, but take each singer on a case by case basis. Often, the most dated aspect of an old record is the vocal, and it can take a while to hear through period mannerisms to separate the great singers from the average to poor ones.

With scat singing, a little goes a long way. Besides Ella and Louis, just about nobody can pull it off, certainly not at length. And vocalese can get annoying fast.

Once you get past Bessie and Billie, is there any singer that everyone agrees on?

(Maybe Aretha?)

Edited August 27, 2005 by Kalo

[JSngry]

Truthfully, I think that anybody who can't relate to any kind of vocal music has intimacy issues. Men are famous for that, btw.

Just my opinion, nothing personal, and I could be wrong. But there it is.

Edited August 27, 2005 by JSngry

[Swinging Swede]

Singers killed the band business. That's why. Still can't forgive them for that.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

You mean, like Bing vs. Sousa?

Mike

[Quincy]

Jack Teagarden is who turned me around from tolerating & avoiding vocalists to enjoying & seeking more. I still have a ways to go, but I'm no longer allergic to the concept.

[nemo7]

a good scat passage every now and again often is befitting, to me, anyway. like a total other instrument of possibilities.

[Kalo]

a good scat passage every now and again often is befitting, to me, anyway.  like a total other instrument of possibilities.

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Nothing wrong with a good scat passage, but when it goes on and on....

[Kalo]

Jack Teagarden is who turned me around from tolerating & avoiding vocalists to enjoying & seeking more. I still have a ways to go, but I'm no longer allergic to the concept.

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Teagrden was a great singer.

[Ron S]

Nothing wrong with a good scat passage, but when it goes on and on....

. . . it can become scatological?

[chandra]

I am new to Jazz and am still learning to be a good listener. Based on what I have listened and learnt so far, I have the following reaction and I would like to know what you think of that.

Given that the soul of Jazz is in improvisation and that too harmonic improvisation, instrumental jazz fits that well. Vocalists can improvise on the melody but can they improvise on the harmony? ( I don't know ).

If they can't, then to me what we call as Vocal Jazz is sort of a different discipline.

At a gut level for this novice listener, when I listen to NPR late evening Jazz, when they play an instrumental piece followed by a vocal piece, they sound quite different. Not that they sound completely unrelated but the instrumental Jazz right sounds like 'Jazz' where as with a vocal piece, I need to hear the instrumental sections to kick in to sound like 'Jazz'. Again, it may just be me.

This is not to say my preference is instrumental jazz over vocal jazz. Piano solos are too abstract for me to appreciate and enjoy but if I had heard a vocal version of the same melody before, then I have found myself enjoying that piano solo a lot better.

My question then is: If vocal 'jazz' is different enough in the improvisional context specifically, given that is a significant thing that defines Jazz, then does it qualify to be categorized under Jazz? If they belong in the same category, what is common between them, musically, to justify that.

[JSngry]

I am new to Jazz and am still learning to be a good listener. Based on what I have listened and learnt so far, I have the following reaction and I would like to know what you think of that.

Given that the soul of Jazz is in improvisation and that too harmonic improvisation...

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That's not right, at least not imo. It's a common position these days, and there's plenty of truth in it, but it's not the whole truth.

[Noj]

Given that the soul of Jazz is in improvisation and that too harmonic improvisation...

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That's not right, at least not imo. It's a common position these days, and there's plenty of truth in it, but it's not the whole truth.

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Is improv the defining characteristic of jazz, or swing?

I find the jazz I like best has a healthy balance of both. But by all means sacrifice both or either one if necessary to facilitate creativity.

[Brad]

Kalo said it for me. There's just something about some of these white guys singing like Woody that just don't it for me. Some of those male vocalists on the Kenton box are deadly. Jazz for me is instrumentalists not vocalists and while I can take it occasionally not just as a general rule. That's why 9 cds of Anita O'Day is 8 cds is too much for me. Vocalists I do like are Johnny Hartman (what a voice), Earl Coleman, Billie, Ella and Louis. Ella is what a singer should sound like. Since rock is/are vocals it's not an issue there for me.

[Brad]

Kalo said it for me. There's just something about some of these white guys singing like Woody that just don't it for me. Some of those male vocalists on the Kenton box are deadly. Jazz for me is instrumentalists not vocalists and while I can take it occasionally not just as a general rule. That's why 9 cds of Anita O'Day is 8 cds is too much for me. Vocalists I do like are Johnny Hartman (what a voice), Earl Coleman, Billie, Ella and Louis. Ella is what a singer should sound like. Since rock is/are vocals it's not an issue there for me.