Williams ETUDE digital piano

[scottb]

My daughter's school offers private piano lessons after school and since my daughter will be there anyway, what the heck!

My wife said the first thing teacher said was "Get a piano, a keyboard is a different instrument." Follwed by, "Think of it as an investment in your child's musical development."

My daughter turns 6 in October. There is no way I'm springing for a piano yet! (A B3 maybe, but not a piano)

Any suggestions? I would like to get something for a couple hundred bucks but not a toy or total junk. Anything like that out there?

Edited August 27, 2005 by scottb

[Peter Johnson]

Craigs list, baby! Not sure where you are in AR, but check this out:

http://littlerock.craigslist.org/cgi-bin/s...=min&maxAsk=max

[Chuck Nessa]

My daughter turns 6 in October.  There is no way I'm springing for a piano yet!  (A B3 maybe, but not a piano)

Any suggestions?  I would like to get something for a couple hundred bucks but not a toy or total junk.  Anything like that out there?

←

Find a piano. Forget your organ.

You can usually find one for little or nothing. Moving it is more than the owner wants to spend. If you are lucky, you will find a Steinway upright.

After you get the instrument, work on it yourself - it will add to your music appreciation.

[Kalo]

Go for the piano!

[bertrand]

I would like to get a keyboard as well for my son. A piano is out of the question for space reasons in our townhouse (even if I ditched my wall of CDs), so I have to go the keyboard route. Considering the price of houses in the DC area ($800 K), moving is not in the cards right now.

I will be interested in keyboard suggestions on this thread.

Bertrand.

[Big Wheel]

I would like to get a keyboard as well for my son.  A piano is out of the question for space reasons in our townhouse (even if I ditched my wall of CDs), so I have to go the keyboard route.  Considering the price of houses in the DC area ($800 K), moving is not in the cards right now.

I will be interested in keyboard suggestions on this thread.

Bertrand.

←

If you must go the electric route, get a digital piano with weighted keys (although any keyboard with stand won't take up THAT much less space than a spinet). Getting a workstation-type keyboard with a powerful built-in synth will be mostly useless for a little kid.

I haven't been in the market for quite awhile so I don't know which models to recommend. Kurzweil, Yamaha, and Roland all have decent reputations in terms of digital pianos.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Space-wise, a piano almost always sits up against a wall. A keyboard can live away from the wall or even be moved around when necessary.

In terms of an 88-key weighted action "digital piano" you're not going to see one new for less than $500 and the quality ones are about twice that. You would want one that has the built-in speakers otherwise you're going to be buying an amplifier too. The professional models don't have the speakers, the "home" models do.

If you can swing the space, a real upright can be found cheaper.

Mike

[Ron S]

If you can swing the space, a real upright can be found cheaper.

. . . and undoubtedly would be strongly recommended and preferred over a keyboard by virtually all piano teachers, and not just your daughter's.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Well, there are considerations. Speaking as an ex-piano-teacher, I would say that having the real piano is great - IF you invest in maintaining it. Not all real pianos are equal. An out-of-tune one with sticking keys is going to be a frustration and will injure the student's sense of pitch. The recommended tuning regimen is twice a year. Somewhere around $75-100 for each tuning when last I checked. In this regard, the electronic ones win out - they never have to be tuned and the keys never stick (well, hardly ever). But they still don't have the sensitivity of a real keyboard and the resonance of sound is artificial.

When the student practices on an electronic keyboard, it will be a reasonably big switch every week onto the teacher's real piano, which could be frustrating. There will be some disparity between your old used upright and the teacher's Steinway grand, but it's not as big a difference. A very young student is dealing with all kinds of muscle development and dexterity issues - a real piano demands more than an electronic keyboard does, even those with weighted actions.

Mike

[Ron S]

The recommended tuning regimen is twice a year. Somewhere around $75-100 for each tuning when last I checked.

Even once a year at $75--which is exactly what I paid here in Philly last month--should be adequate for the average beginning student (unless the piano is in such incredibly crappy shape that it just won't stay in tune for even a few months).

[Michael Fitzgerald]

But it's not the level of the student that makes the piano hold or lose tuning. It's the weather: humidity, fluctuations in temperature. Unless the weather conditions are uniform, it's quite likely that how it is when you get the single annual tuning will be only a non-representative snapshot of how things will be during that entire year. In a lot of places, there's a point in the winter where the heat gets turned on and that is a *radically* different environment than what things were like in say, October. And when you've got the A/C going in August is different from how things were in May. I'm not a technician, but I suspect that there are particular regional considerations for seasonal changes.

And since a beginning student, especially a very young one, is developing the ear, it's important to get the "right" sounds associated with the right notes. The instrument itself and its history are also to be remembered: a piano that has been regularly serviced will hold tuning better than one that has been ignored for a few years. I've seen neglected instruments get tuned and then be way off the following week, requiring another visit.

Mike

[Big Wheel]

But it's not the level of the student that makes the piano hold or lose tuning. It's the weather: humidity, fluctuations in temperature. Unless the weather conditions are uniform, it's quite likely that how it is when you get the single annual tuning will be only a non-representative snapshot of how things will be during that entire year. In a lot of places, there's a point in the winter where the heat gets turned on and that is a *radically* different environment than what things were like in say, October. And when you've got the A/C going in August is different from how things were in May. I'm not a technician, but I suspect that there are particular regional considerations for seasonal changes.

And since a beginning student, especially a very young one, is developing the ear, it's important to get the "right" sounds associated with the right notes. The instrument itself and its history are also to be remembered: a piano that has been regularly serviced will hold tuning better than one that has been ignored for a few years. I've seen neglected instruments get tuned and then be way off the following week, requiring another visit.

Mike

←

You can regulate humidity somewhat by purchasing a special dehumidifier. It's basically a long rod that sits above the soundboard and plugs into a nearby wall outlet.

[scottb]

I think if my daughter was 10 and showing interest in piano, it would be easy to get the piano. She's only 6 however and I don't know whether she'll likeit or not. Maybe something cheap now which I can toy with as well later and in 6 months or so if she is still interested, get the piano.

[Jim Alfredson]

Hey, I learned to play exclusively on synths and organs! Didn't really touch a real piano until I was in my teens (even though my dad is a piano tuner/technician). Of course, I didn't take lessons, either.

That said, you can usually get a piano either cheap or for free. Before taking it home, however, it's always a good idea to have a technician come and look at it. It could just need a tuning, or it could have cracks in the soundboard, need all the felts replaced, strings replaced, action repairs, etc. Always good to know what you're getting into before-hand. But if you have the space, a real piano is the way to go.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

For the short term, perhaps look into rentals - either piano or keyboard.

Mike

[Jim Alfredson]

I should also mention that any weighted-action modern keyboard/synth you're likely to get is going to be much more expensive as an initial investment than a piano. Weighted action keyboards are not cheap.

So even if she is only six, a real piano right now might be more cost effective.

Zora is only 16months but she loves the piano!

[Ron S]

Zora is only 16months but she loves the piano!

But then again, she's a prodigy.

I think Mike's rental idea is the way to go, if you can't find a decent used piano for fairly cheap. My daughter's piano teacher is adamant that her students practice on pianos, and not keyboards (which was not a problem for us since we already had the same piano I used when I took lessons as a kid in the '60's ). Of course, if you end up with a piano that needs a lot of work, you can always send it up to Jim's dad in Michigan.

Edited August 24, 2005 by Ron S

[bertrand]

Does your daughter's teacher offer to pay the mortgage on a house big enough to fit a piano?

If my son winds up taking piano lessons and we get such a teacher, I'll have to work out a deal with the hotel across the street. They have a couple of pianos sitting around that no one seems to use...

Alternatively, I'll get him started on sax instead. I had an offer by a well-known Baltimore-DC area player to bring him around and get him started on the mouthpiece. Since I already have an alto, I wouldn't need to buy anything and I can wait to see if he actually wants to pursue this. He's a big Jackie fan, so alto may be the way to go.

Bertrand.

[scottb]

OK, forget the keyboard.

I'm having a tough time finding a used piano worth the cost of having it delivered.

What do you guys think about a digital piano? I've seen some with pretty realistic action (guitar term that I'm not sure applies) and dynamics that sound pretty good to me. It would be easier to transport (even room to room in the house), wouldn't require tuning or maintanence (sorry Jim's dad), could be used with headphones and it's MIDI compatible.

How about the Yamaha P60 stage piano for $750 at Musicians Friend or perhaps the Williams ETUDE Console Piano which is on sale for $399.

Edited August 26, 2005 by scottb

[scottb]

I really can't decide about this piano. I got to tinker with a Yamaha P60 at the music store and I think it would be great for our needs. This Williams sounds very similar in features and is only $399. Reviews online are 10 big "yes"s and 3 big "no"s. No in betweens, people either loved it or hated it.

[jazzbo]

I bought a Yamaha digital piano a year and a bit ago and I love it. I played around on a lot of available machines, and settled on this one, cost me about a grand. It FEELS like a piano. It sounds really good, with on top of a nice grand piano sound, a nice Rhodes and Wurlitzer sound as well. Everyone who visits digs it.

I did play cheaper digital pianos, but didn't feel they would hold up to a lot of use (not that I over use one!) and they didn't feel as real. . . .

[scottb]

I bought a Yamaha digital piano

What model is it? Even to a nonplayer like myself, the quality of the higher end Yamahas was obvious.

Actually, today I bought a relatively cheap keyboard to hold us until I find a piano or digital piano if the kid sticks with it.

[GregN]

OK, forget the keyboard.

I'm having a tough time finding a used piano worth the cost of having it delivered. 

What do you guys think about a digital piano?  I've seen some with pretty realistic action (guitar term that I'm not sure applies) and dynamics that sound pretty good to me.  It would be easier to transport (even room to room in the house), wouldn't require tuning or maintanence (sorry Jim's dad), could be used with headphones and it's MIDI compatible. 

How about the Yamaha P60 stage piano for $750 at Musicians Friend or perhaps the Williams ETUDE Console Piano which is on sale for $399.

←

Bought a Williams, brought it home it sounded thin and the volume pot was screwed up. Took it back, spent another 500 on a Yamaha and have been happy with it.

g

[jazzbo]

Mine's a P-120.

[scottb]

Thanks for the input, I think if she sticks with it, I will get the Yamaha P60.