kenny weir Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 I think England is in trouble as are Sweden, Mexico, Ghana, Australia and Ecuador. Well Scott. I reckon that's a pretty darn silly way of looking at it. This is the kind of trouble I'm sure some folkses - the US, Czechs and South Koreans, for example - wish they were in. And remember who mastermided the Italians' expulsion last time 'round? Guus Hiddink. Although I realise, of course, that three of the teams you name are now gone! Go the underdogs! Looking at the lineup for the last 16, I'm actually a little staggered at the company Australia is keeping. The value/income factor for all the players has changed radically already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted June 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 I think England is in trouble as are Sweden, Mexico, Ghana, Australia and Ecuador. Well Scott. I reckon that's a pretty darn silly way of looking at it. This is the kind of trouble I'm sure some folkses - the US, Czechs and South Koreans, for example - wish they were in. Easy there, mate! I think it was just Scott's way of saying which teams he thought would bow out in this round. He may be right or wrong about each one, but I wouldn't call it silly to phrase it that way. Although I realise, of course, that three of the teams you name are now gone! From the above list, just Sweden and Mexico thus far, no...? Oh, and I give Australia a decent chance of upsetting Italy, fwiw. I hope they do, in fact... just don't expect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 By saying they were in trouble I meant if they don't step it up a notch they're going to be out because there are some teams that look like they are on top form. I thought today Mexico did just that and gave Argentina a good run. I think having Borgetti back helped a lot. I found myself pulling for them when they really are our hated rivals like Jum said. One of the best games of the Cup so far. That list also included England and and Ecuador who play each other so at least one of them will be around for another turn, but trouble lurks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 That's the way I saw it (of course, I had the luxury of a slow motion replay, so I certainly can't pretend that I would be able to do a better job of refereeing). Lucic definitely put his hand on the german player's arm, I just don't think he actually grabbed and pulled enough to warrant a foul in this case). At any rate, I still doubt that Sweden were going to score (or win) with 11. Yeah, with you there. The Swedes were very weak, and I think would have struggled with 12, let alone 10 or 11! I didn't mention it above, but I think Ecuador has a decent chance for an upset tomorrow. If they can establish possession and frustrate England's midfield, I don't see why not. Ecuador looked very good in their first two group matches, and then ran into a German buzzsaw (with key players out, iirc). I still picked England to win this one, due to their depth of individual talent, but I have some doubts about them playing as a team. I'm really tempted to agree with you. England have a streak of arrogance, traditionally, which would see them vastly underestimate teams like Ecuador. Couple that with a possible false sense of security after the Ecuador v Germany game, and there are perhaps issues for England. I just feel - especially since Sven looks like he'll be flooding the midfield by playing Carrick in a 4-5-1 (and remembering also Rooney's penchant for tracking back) - that the England midfield will have too much for them. I agree that the Rodriguez goal was sweet. There have been some great ones in this tournament. I still can't erase that first one (Lahm's) from my mind. I love the kind of goals Argentina scored with a beautiful buildup, but there's also something about an incredible laser beam placed perfectly. For Lahm to do that right out of the WC gate was very memorable for me. The Lahm was especially satisfying, I agree! Right in the corner. Frings in the same game was nice, but I'm with you, it was pretty special to have that happen after just 4-5 minutes of the tournament! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 And remember who mastermided the Italians' expulsion last time 'round? Guus Hiddink. If you remember the match with S.Corea, and we all remember it very well, the 'expulsion' of Italians was due to the referee, the infamous Jose Moreno. A referee expulsed by FIFA after that match. So don't count on Hiddink. If I were you I would count more on the characterial weakness of today's italian team and the poor form of Totti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 And remember who mastermided the Italians' expulsion last time 'round? Guus Hiddink. If you remember the match with S.Corea, and we all remember it very well, the 'expulsion' of Italians was due to the referee, the infamous Jose Moreno. A referee expulsed by FIFA after that match. So don't count on Hiddink. If I were you I would count more on the characterial weakness of today's italian team and the poor form of Totti. I'm not sure Totti's even worth his place. He seems to have been a passenger thus far. I have to admit, I've never been convinced by the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 (edited) I'm not sure Totti's even worth his place. He seems to have been a passenger thus far. I have to admit, I've never been convinced by the guy. Totti played a great season until the accident. The coach builded the team around him and Pirlo. We are still waiting for the 'real' Totti. After the accident he needs to play in order to reach his top form. The guy is growing since the first match. Tough I agree with you: Roberto Baggio was one of another class, for sure the most talented player he had in the last 40 years.As the supporters used to hail: 'Non è un miraggio, è Roberto Baggio' (It's not a mirage, an illusion, it's Roberto Baggio) Edited June 25, 2006 by porcy62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Totti, Baggio and all the great 'number 10', (Maradona, Zidane, you name it, ), usually need some liberty in order to express their talent. It seems to me that in today's football, often they are sacrified to tacticism, and too strict schemes. Maybe I am wrong but all this athletic strenght and tatctic made football faster, but poorer of beauty. IMHO obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Goren. Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Half time: England- Ecuador 0:0. The English team looks terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Goren. Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 The English team won, but what they showed us today will not be enough for the quarter final on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 And England have won. Without having to do very much. Goes for the whole comp so far. No one knows what England have got that can go anywhere. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 (edited) Half time: England- Ecuador 0:0. The English team looks terrible. We have to take into account the oppressive heat. They looked better today - admittedly though both teams were far from brilliant. Beckham earned his salary with a killer free kick goal (just before Sven was abrout to bring Crouch on) and Rooney is getting better with every game, energy wise. Lampard needs a specs prescription though.. Double bifocals Edited June 25, 2006 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 We have to take into account the oppressive heat. They looked better today. Beckham earned his salary with a killer free kick goal and Rooney is getting better with every game. Lampard needs a specs prescription though.. the temperature was very similar to yesterday's. Why Germans can run and move under such heat and English would not be able to is a mystery. The English might have looked better, they were still abysmal; no ideas, no tactic (WTF *was* the idea of 3-5-1 anyway if you are not going to play the midfield?). A decent goalie would have countered Beckham's kick, it wasn't *that* spiffy. So there. I'll agree with you on Rooney. Still, this was an utterly boring game for an outsider not putting for any of the two teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 We have to take into account the oppressive heat. They looked better today. Beckham earned his salary with a killer free kick goal and Rooney is getting better with every game. Lampard needs a specs prescription though.. the temperature was very similar to yesterday's. Why Germans can run and move under such heat and English would not be able to is a mystery. The English might have looked better, they were still abysmal; no ideas, no tactic (WTF *was* the idea of 3-5-1 anyway if you are not going to play the midfield?). A decent goalie would have countered Beckham's kick, it wasn't *that* spiffy. So there. I'll agree with you on Rooney. Still, this was an utterly boring game for an outsider not putting for any of the two teams. I fully agree with John; a terrible game by an average team. Despite their difficult game yesterday Argentina are the only team that really impressed me so far, though I must admit that the Germans are better than I expected. I wonder how they'll do against Argentina on Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted June 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 I tend to agree with the criticisms of England, although they did look better. Rooney impressed me. What frustrated me as an impartial viewer who wanted to be entertained was Ecuador's apathetic response to Beckham's goal. You're down a goal in the knockout round of a World Cup, and you can't attack more than that? They looked worse than the U.S. in that respect, which is saying something. No urgency (and very little emotion), very few runs at England with numbers, repeatedly slowing down to let England's defense set up when they could have forced the issue... just dull. It wasn't as though England were keeping them from moving through the midfield. At any rate, England deserved to win... but boring is boring. Give me something, you underdogs who are still alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Totti, Baggio and all the great 'number 10', (Maradona, Zidane, you name it, ), usually need some liberty in order to express their talent. It seems to me that in today's football, often they are sacrified to tacticism, and too strict schemes. Maybe I am wrong but all this athletic strenght and tatctic made football faster, but poorer of beauty. IMHO obviously. Well, obviously you've seen far more Italian football than I have... I'm still pretty amazed that you should mention Totti in the same breath as Baggio, let along the other great 10s. On which subject, a book about the great number 10s was reveiewed very favourably in the paper the other day. The most shocking inclusion? Dennis Bergkamp. Search me as to why (bear in mind he beat people like Zico for inclusion ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 (edited) This Holland v Portugal game is getting tasty. FWIW, I have rarely seen a team so content to try to cheat their way to success as these Dutch. Sneeze near a lot of them and they'd fall over. The *GREAT* Ruud Gullit is in the ITV studio, and is rightly ashamed of them. Edited June 25, 2006 by Red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 What an extraordinary game. I am not at all sorry the Dutch are out, but the Portugese were hardly spotless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Well, obviously you've seen far more Italian football than I have... I'm still pretty amazed that you should mention Totti in the same breath as Baggio, let along the other great 10s. On which subject, a book about the great number 10s was reveiewed very favourably in the paper the other day. The most shocking inclusion? Dennis Bergkamp. Search me as to why (bear in mind he beat people like Zico for inclusion ). As I said before, Baggio was of another class, but I can assure you that Totti is a great player. Sadly, for our national team, he missed the great international competition, probably he lacks psychological strenght, he couldn't bear the tension and the expectations. Anyway, if I I should judge Totti and Baggio I would say that Baggio is a pro and a pretty decent man, Totti is a good spoiled boy, like most of today's players. BTW I enjoyed Portugal/Holland, a part the referee, a real battle. And Van Basten could have been a great player, but is a bad coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 This Holland v Portugal game is getting tasty. FWIW, I have rarely seen a team so content to try to cheat their way to success as these Dutch. Sneeze near a lot of them and they'd fall over. The *GREAT* Ruud Gullit is in the ITV studio, and is rightly ashamed of them. LOL! Ruud must have been smoking his hair. As if the Portugese are not really really out to drop and -- much much worse -- provoke cards for their opponent. It's all over now, but that shite that Figo pulled with the headbanging (WTF!) and the theatricals to get Boullabaisse the red was much below even Portugese standards. The problem with this match -- and the Dutch -- is that the ref doesn't look for the little disruptive shite that goes on and that kills the atmosphere; then the Dutch start banging back (there is some Englishness in them after all) and get the cards. Especially cool how that Portugese dude almost kicked off Robben's arm and saw, which card? None actually, as it was Robben who got the yellow on that action. Cool runnings, ref! Of course if the ref had given Bouillabasse red after that jump on Ronaldo (the little pisser) then maybe he might have held this under control. As it went now, the ref seemed to have felt he owned the Portugese a favour, and another favour, and a favour, and before the knew it, the house was on fire or rather ablaze. This wasn't a game, this was war and very ugly. Someone should blame the ref, so let me be the first. At least he likely set a record for most yellows and reds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 (edited) This wasn't a game, this was war and very ugly. Someone should blame the ref, so let me be the first. Hey! I am the first one to do it. I will put out a yellow for it Edited June 25, 2006 by porcy62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 This wasn't a game, this was war and very ugly. Someone should blame the ref, so let me be the first. Hey! I am the first one to do it. I will put out a yellow for it ah yes, ashes on my head, you may kick me in the face and I will take the yellow card for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 WTF has Van Basten done? Whatever happened between him and Van Nistelrooy, Ruud should have played! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Well, I'm kind of glad it's all over for the Netherlands. Marco van Basten is a nice guy, but I hated the way he let the Dutch play. I'd rather they play the "total football" they're known for and go out, than play like shite like they did the last year or so and still go out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Well, I'm kind of glad it's all over for the Netherlands. Marco van Basten is a nice guy, but I hated the way he let the Dutch play. I'd rather they play the "total football" they're known for and go out, than play like shite like they did the last year or so and still go out. yes, being cut off of the goings on a bit, I was wondering what the hell was going on with the Dutch playing style. Not at all what I had expected. It was pretty shite. Funny that Paul Breitner commented that the Dutch were playing "Ergebnisfussball" and that that was something to spit at. My thoughts on that comment: "You invented it feghbrains!" heheh. FWIW, Brasil was playing good ole German style "Ergebnisfussball" four years ago and it got them the cup against a German team playing more total-football oriented. Same accounts for Greece two years ago, utter "Ergebnisfussball" (damn, they even had a "libero"!), next to no fun at all and it got them the euro-cup against the Portugese pissers (sorry 'bout that). I still wonder when it will dawn on folks that the era of beautiful "total football" is really over and that the next wave of boring shite is hitting us like a tornado. I'd rather not that happens, so I'll be rooting for the Germans who have not yet shown one trace of sitting in the back and hoping for the best in this tournament. Unlike all the others, Argentina included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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