WORLD CUP 2006 / GERMANY

[P.L.M]

I have to agree with Brownie on this. Didn't Zidane retire but then get pressed back into service because of the French team's struggles? If Barthez is gone, good riddance. His moment in the sun was 1998 and that's gone.

Too often, we don't like to admit when our heroes can no longer do what we remember them doing. Sad but true and sometimes better to cut the cord and move on.

Ridicule, BROWNIE and BRAD.

ZIDANE is ZIDANE... Just a bit longer to get the machine to go on.

And if he goes to GERMANY, it will not be only one of the star of the team as usual, but a star of the WHOLE show, if the team is able to go on.

Have you seen the goal that he has score this week-end? Indeed, the maestro is back.

What's puzzling me, BROWNIE, is the agresse way you're speaking about ZIDANE.

What your problem with him? He refuses to let you take his photos, or what? Don't get it.

And BARTHEZ is far to be out of the race even if BRAD has decided so.

I'd like to know why he thinks that's a "good ridance" that BARTHEZ is gone (and gone where?).

And for the record, he was a much better player in 2000 AND 2002 than in 1998.

Get your fact right, please.

If you try to find where I feel that there is "contempt" from some of you, people, to other teams or players than yours, this another good example.

AND the new star player of the French soccer season Franck Ribery! (PLM, I'm sure you read French

Funny how suddenly you get all over a young player who has proove nothing yet.

Only that he has talent, okay.

But he is not the only one. To make him the new star of French football is a bit premature, to say the least (and it's also very much french).

GOVOU, MERIEM and the older of the brothers CHEYROU have been also promote as the "rising star of the french football" when they start (and it was not so long ago).

I'm still waiting.

And by the way, you didn't answer to my question: which are the names who could take the place of ZIDANE and do better than him?

Well, enough football for now.

See you in June/July 2006 where words on a bulletin borad will be of no help to any teams, for shure.

Edited November 28, 2005 by P.L.M

[brownie]

Brazil's Ronaldinho was named football player of the year and was awarded the Ballon d'Or (Golden Ball) trophy in Paris this evening.

It was the 5Oth time the Ballon d'Or had been awarded. Most of the former laureates were on hand for the award ceremony. Quite an imposing assemblage of soccer greats from Di Stefano to Zidane with Paolo Rossi, Beckenbauer, Kopa, Matthaus, Cruyff, Eusebio, Platini, Ronaldo and others.

The FC Barcelona midfielder was expected to win the trophy.

Chelsea midfielder Frank Lampard came second with Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard placing third.

Ronaldinho is an amazing player who is a joy to watch in action.

The Brazilian team with Ronaldinho will be hard to beat at the World Cup next year!

[Jim R]

PLM, I don't quite understand some of your attitudes and comments, which is why I challenged you (in a fair manner, I thought, with even a bit of joviality attempted on my part). You went on to make a broad criticism of US fans in general, which I also (sincerely) did not understand. I then asked you to explain. I'm still waiting...

BTW, words on a bulletin board are of no help to any team right now, either. People disagree- so what? It's all supposed to be about fun.

[brownie]

What's puzzling me, BROWNIE, is the agresse way you're speaking about ZIDANE.

What your problem with him? He refuses to let you take his photos, or what? Don't get it.

You're starting to sound like a true Frenchman, P.L.M.

No problem at all with Zidane. I have admired him from way back and fondly remember those great moments of the 1998 World Cup. Been a great fan of him all along.

Just that I really am afraid that by 2006 he will not be any longer the magnificient player he was. Everybody gets old and past one's glory days. True, his goal yesterday with Real Madrid shows he still can play.

I also think that the French national team can do without him by now. That would leave a chance for other valuable players to show their skills!

[P.L.M]

PLM, I don't quite understand some of your attitudes and comments, which is why I challenged you (in a fair manner, I thought, with even a bit of joviality attempted on my part). You went on to make a broad criticism of US fans in general, which I also (sincerely) did not understand. I then asked you to explain. I'm still waiting...

BTW, words on a bulletin board are of no help to any team right now, either. People disagree- so what? It's all supposed to be about fun.

I don't get yours either.

I don't speak enough good english to get the "jovial" part of your post, to say the truth.

I've nothing against you in particular.

What suprise me (and I don't accuse you to be part of that as I don't have read back what and who was writing it and don't intend to dot it), was the way that the FRENCH team was denied to be in this, obviously, speculative first hat (and in which they will be because their performance the last ten years and their place in the FIFA rank.)

So I've ask what ENGLAND and SPAIN has done to be a better choice than the "bleu" during the same period. And the answer was, what, one or two quater of final?

This no "contempt" to this team from my part (I like ENGLAND and SPAIN where part of my family live), just looking at the fact.

And, aniway if I'll support a team during the next WC my football taste are more in favor of teams and players from BRAZIL and HOLLAND because this two country had an continued to have the most creative football of this last forty years (sorry to go so far in the past for some of you, but I'm enough old for remember that.)

Edited November 28, 2005 by P.L.M

[Jim R]

PLM, here is your comment:

I've nothing againt AUSTRALIA or USA but it seems to me that their supporters are very quick to scream victory and dismiss other teams in the most despicable way when they have yet EVERYTHING to proove as a team (quater of final in WC is hardly a performance who puts you up with the greatest team, ever, don't you think?)

So, are you referring to US and Australian fans you have met in person, or are you referring to things you have read in this thread?

And who said the US was "the greatest team ever"? I can tell you (since you've said you are unwilling to go back and look), it was not stated by anyone here.

As I said above, from my perspective as a US supporter, there is purely an excitement (and hope for even better things to come) that comes from having our greatest success in the history of the tournament. Because it came in 2002, when France happened to have a bad tournement, perhaps you were not in the mood to hear about our joy at that time?

And who said the US was "the greatest team ever"? I can tell you (since you've said you are unwilling to go back and look), it was not stated by anyone here.

Someone might have said something like "the US now has THEIR best team ever" (not "the best team in the world", you see, but OUR best team ever). Which I think is true. Just in case you misunderstood...

[Alexander Hawkins]

Quite an imposing assemblage of soccer greats from Di Stefano to Zidane with Paolo Rossi, Beckenbauer, Kopa, Matthaus, Cruyff, Eusebio, Platini, Ronaldo and others.

Let's club together and buy them some kit. What a team this could be! Effective though he was, I might lobby for Mr Matthaus to be replaced. And I suggest Mr Mourinho as our manager

[porcy62]

Brazil's Ronaldinho was named football player of the year and was awarded the Ballon d'Or (Golden Ball) trophy in Paris this evening.

It was the 5Oth time the Ballon d'Or had been awarded. Most of the former laureates were on hand for the award ceremony. Quite an imposing assemblage of soccer greats from Di Stefano to Zidane with Paolo Rossi, Beckenbauer, Kopa, Matthaus, Cruyff, Eusebio, Platini, Ronaldo and others.

The FC Barcelona midfielder was expected to win the trophy.

Chelsea midfielder Frank Lampard came second with Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard placing third.

Ronaldinho is an amazing player who is a joy to watch in action.

The Brazilian team with Ronaldinho will be hard to beat at the World Cup next year!

This award is usually "forwards" oriented, I think that some other players should be in it.

A part the greatest italian player of modern era, Roberto Baggio, ( a center forward, simply a genius IMHO) I would add Franco Baresi and Paolo Maldini, two defenders who made the AC MIlan of Gullit and Van Basten one of the all time strongest team. IMHO of course.

[brownie]

Yes, the Ballon d'Or award is very much 'forward-oriented'. That's obviously because the forwards get most of the attention.

In fifty years, only one goalkeeper was honored: Lev Yachin!

The juries could not have survived if they did leave Yashin out...

[porcy62]

And what about Baggio?

A part he failed to score the penalty in US final.

[Brad]

P.L.M.,

My feelings about Barthez have to do with his performance for Man U. I have not seen him recently but some of his performances in the latter stages of his Manchester United career left a lot to be desired -- and I'm not a Manchester fan. I haven't seen him since he transferred to France since I don't have access to those matches or to the qualifying matches either.

[brownie]

And what about Baggio?

A part he failed to score the penalty in US final.

Awesome player, Roberto Baggio.

He was superb at the 1994 and 1998 World Cups.

Too bad he is mostly remembered for that missed penalty in the LA final! Same thing happened to other giants, including Michel Platini or Diego Maradonna.

P.L.M.,

My feelings about Barthez have to do with his performance for Man U. I have not seen him recently but some of his performances in the latter stages of his Manchester United career left a lot to be desired -- and I'm not a Manchester fan. I haven't seen him since he transferred to France since I don't have access to those matches or to the qualifying matches either.

Brad, France played two friendly international matches this month to prepare for the World Cup.

Barthez was the goalie for the first match - against Costa Rica. Barthez conceded two goals, one of them totally his fault. France won 3-2 in the end!

Coupet was the goalie for the second match - against Germany. Final score was 0-0 thanks partly to brillant saves from Coupet!

And coach Domenech is still to make up his mind on who's going to be in the French goalmouth in Germany

[Alexander Hawkins]

Am I allowed to show my club biases by throwing Gianfranco Zola in as a name?

Almost criminal to leave it at Baresi and Maldini. I think maybe throw in the other two - Costacurta, and, probably more significantly, Desailly, as well!

And, in the best possible spirit

Brad Posted Today, 09:31 AM

P.L.M.,

My feelings about Barthez have to do with his performance for Man U. I have not seen him recently but some of his performances in the latter stages of his Manchester United career left a lot to be desired -- and I'm not a Manchester fan. I haven't seen him since he transferred to France since I don't have access to those matches or to the qualifying matches either.

as an avowedly anti-United man myself, Barthez's performances for the Reds are, I would suggest, a good reason to like him!

Going back a bit - what about Gento?

And I take it Gordon Banks will be a reserve goalie?

p.s. count me in as a Baggio fan.

[porcy62]

I have to admit I am not a AC Milan fan, now more than ever since Berlusconi became PM , but that team was impressive. I didn't mention Desailly because he wasn't in the dream team with Rijkard, Gullit and Van Basten.

Count me in as a Zola fan

Anyway I think that the Greatest Player I saw in my life is Maradona, just my opinion of course

Edited November 29, 2005 by porcy62

[Alexander Hawkins]

I have to admit I am not a AC Milan fan, now more than ever since Berlusconi became PM , but that team was impressive. I didn't mention Desailly because he wasn't in the dream team with Rijkard, Gullit and Van Basten.

Not even for a while? In any case, a great player! Too right about Berlusconi.

[porcy62]

I have to admit I am not a AC Milan fan, now more than ever since Berlusconi became PM , but that team was impressive. I didn't mention Desailly because he wasn't in the dream team with Rijkard, Gullit and Van Basten.

Not even for a while? In any case, a great player! Too right about Berlusconi.

I think Desailly was in the team when Fabio Capello was the coach, the coach of Gullit, etc, was Arrigo Sacchi. Anyway Desailly was a great player, and the Capello's team was terrific too.

[kenny weir]

So, I've nothing againt AUSTRALIA or USA but it seems to me that their supporters are very quick to scream victory and dismiss other teams in the most despicable way when they have yet EVERYTHING to proove as a team

I think that our dear american/australian soccer's fan see their respective teams much bigger that they really are.

Of course, we've still got everything to prove. And who doesn't see their team as bigger than they actually are? (Apart, from what I've been reading here, the French).

But why use the word despicable? The World Cup is a joyous event. Most of us contributing to this thread seem to be trying to reflect that. Why be such a black heart about it?

"Our dear American/Australian soccer's fans ...." My, you are a partronising twerp, aren't we? And you're the one calling someone else out as being aggressive?

Edited November 29, 2005 by kenny weir

[Brad]

Looks like Brownie made the case for me. Thank you.

I had missed or glossed over the point that Kenny quoted. I don't think U.S. fans are as you say and I sincerely doubt that Australian fans are that way at all. As fans of countries that haven't been on the World Cup stage that long, I don't think we have earned the right to be "despicable" nor have we acted that way.

[Jim R]

I had missed or glossed over the point that Kenny quoted.

Brad, I had a feeling you had overlooked PLM's entrance into this thread (he quoted and challenged you initially). I quoted the same comment Kenny did (and reacted to it) before Kenny's last post.

Still not sure if he's going to come back and explain himself on that.

[kenny weir]

I strongly suspect PLM is unaware of how strong and emotive the word "despicable" is!

[Jim R]

I strongly suspect PLM is unaware of how strong and emotive the word "despicable" is!

I believe you're correct, Kenny. I also think he might have misunderstood some of the comments here about the US team (and perhaps the Socceroos, I'm not sure) having their best team ever (not THE best team in the world ).

I'm still wondering what everyone else thinks about PLM's attitude about rating the current incarnations of various national teams based upon their past history. History is important, but only to a certain degree, IMO.

Oh, and speaking of history, the Palo Alto, California site of several 1994 WC matches (the 84 year old Stanford Stadium) is being torn down starting today. An 86,000 seat stadium built in 1921, and a place I always enjoyed going to since I was a young child. Sorry to see her go...

[kenny weir]

I'm still wondering what everyone else thinks about PLM's attitude about rating the current incarnations of various national teams based upon their past history. History is important, but only to a certain degree, IMO.

Yes, for someone without much football history, comparably speaking, it's interesting hearing these sorts of claims/outbursts - including Brad's earlier on about Uruguay.

I envy such Grand Pasts, but I have been an attentive fan of World Cups for a couple of decades now, so know full well that all that only goes so far. There are ALWAYS fallen heroes. Just as there are ALWAYS giants who seem to perform miracles with no precedent.

As someone from non-traditional football countries, I surely am without the sort of passion that others have in abundance. OTOH, my hopes are modest and my enjoyment of the feats of others - particularly the underdogs - absolutely boundless!

[Alexander Hawkins]

I guess football is like jazz in the sense that it invites nostalgia...

I wonder if PLM's comments pertained more to seeding? I think as we discussed above, past record IS relevant to World Cup seeding: hence the strong likelihood of France getting a top tier draw.

As someone from non-traditional football countries, I surely am without the sort of passion that others have in abundance. OTOH, my hopes are modest and my enjoyment of the feats of others - particularly the underdogs - absolutely boundless!

You can have Togo in the sweepstake then

BTW, I have an ambivalent relationship to football nostalgia. I love the old films of the Magical Magyars, the 1970 Brazilians etc. etc. - but here in the UK, football nostalgia is usually so bound up in the most horrific parochialism and nationalism that you can count me out, by and large.

[marcoliv]

seems that i've missed some discussions about my beloved team...

i'll add my thoughts about Bartez x Coupet

except for that silly goal against Costa Rica, Fabien never did any minor mistake when playing for France and most of all, he saved us on special occasions, he played on his regular level on the WC2002 & Euro2004

i wouldn't say that Barthez needs to retire but Greg is of course in better form than Barthez right now. sometimes experience plays a part of success on football games and that's my major concern about Greg. i trust him a lot (he was formed at Saint-Etienne ) and would take my chances with him in june

now about Zidane....

i don't think his goal last sunday proves anything. he was playing absolutely nothing and ok, socred the goal but for a key player of Madrid team he is playing absolutely nothing for the last 2 years

my thoughts about Zidane on the national team have been expressed before so i still don't agree about his comeback, he added nothing so far after this and for me he doesn't want to play football anymore. it's not a physical problem, his mind is not focused anymore to play on his former higher level.

when he decide to quit la Vecchia Signora for Madrid he knew that he wouldn't have anymore to work that hard as he was required to in Italy

our most memorable teams were made after disasters so i still think we're loosing our time keeping players like Zidane. okay, there isn't a new Zidane to replace him but we have survived, miserably yes, but we survived after Platini left so life goes on.

it's fantastic to have a player like Zidane but it's a problem to replace a guy like this because people always tend to wait for a magic moment from him that won't happen anymore with the constance that we need to be competitive in Germany

Romario is playing with 40 years old on the brazilian championship and it's a pity when a player of this level, like Zidane, don't retire on the appropriate time

allez les bleus

MCO

[J.A.W.]

According to FIFA the eight World Cup seeds are:

Brazil

Germany

Italy

Argentina

France

England

Spain

Mexico