WORLD CUP 2006 / GERMANY

[J.A.W.]

Not world cup football, but any opinions on Roy Keane leaving Manchester?

←

Brad,

There's a thread about that here.

[Jim R]

This is another pet peeve of mine:  Why is Mexico considered to have a better chance of winning than the US.  We are their superior of late and have only lost to them once since we beat them in the World Cup and that loss came at Azteca Stadium 2-1.  Unless the WC is held as Azteca, I'll take the Yanks everytime.

←

One of my pet peeves as well. Obviously, the oddsmakers (and IMO, the minds behind the FIFA rankings) are not paying enough attention to what's been going on. It probably stems from outdated perceptions.

I basically agree with Brad as well, but there's still a part of me that is perfectly happy to see the US underrated. Better we're underrated than overrated, and ratings will mean less and less as the big event approaches.

[kenny weir]

Here's a possible seeding scenario as printed in Melbourne's Herald Sun this morning:

Tier 1: Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Netherlands, France, Italy, Portugal, Czech Republic.

Tier 2: England, Spain, Poland, Paraguay, Sweden, Croatia, Mexico, US.

Tier 3: Ecuador, s Korea, Japan, Switzerland, Serbia/Mont., Ukraine, Tunisia, Costa Rica.

Tier 4: Ivory Coast, Ghana, Australia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Angola, Togo, Trinidad/Tabasco (hot stuff).

A few questionable aspects in there, but ...

On that basis, I would fancy Australia's chances against a couple of the top teams, at least for a draw or two. I would be confident/hopeful when playing most of the tier 2 sides. I would strongly back the Aussies against all the tier 3 teams.

And - a real plus - being in the bottom tier automatically means missing all the scary unknown quantities of the African sides. They're going to be somebody's nightmare - but not ours.

[Brad]

How France makes Tier 1 is beyond me. England or Spain deserve to be higher than them.

[kenny weir]

How France makes Tier 1 is beyond me.  England or Spain deserve to be higher than them.

←

I agree. It's just guesswork at this stage. although that seems to be the main error.

[Gary]

How France makes Tier 1 is beyond me.  England or Spain deserve to be higher than them.

←

I think(I may be wrong) in the last world cup rankings took previous performances in World cup finals into account.

[Gary]

And you're right about Georgie, of course

←

Unfortunately, not having really become aware of the international game until the early 1970's, I never got to see him play when in his prime. But I still got to see him play! I've forgotten how old he was when he joined the NASL, but he still had a few tricks left.

←

Did you see the movie about Georgie?

Not bad at all.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0181311/?fr=c2l...;fc=1;ft=1;fm=1

←

Things are not looking too good for George Best at the moment

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4452002.stm

[Alexander Hawkins]

How France makes Tier 1 is beyond me.  England or Spain deserve to be higher than them.

←

I think(I may be wrong) in the last world cup rankings took previous performances in World cup finals into account.

←

Pretty sure you're right there...

Of course, it occurs to me that I may still have enough 'rosy glow' from Chelsea winning the Premiership to render me immune to England results in the summer I agree though, knowing England, they're bound not to deliver.

I agree - the US look peculiarly low in those odds.

For example, if I were to have an each-way punt on a team getting to the semis (say), I'd far soooner take the US at 80s than the Serbians at 50s.

Edited November 19, 2005 by Red

[Alexander Hawkins]

Looking a bit harder, I especially like the Czech Republic at 28/1. On their day, a superb team.

[J.A.W.]

Looking a bit harder, I especially like the Czech Republic at 28/1. On their day, a superb team.

←

I think they're past their prime, despite the recent return of Nedved. Their performances in their qualifying group (won by the Netherlands) weren't very impressive.

[Alexander Hawkins]

Looking a bit harder, I especially like the Czech Republic at 28/1. On their day, a superb team.

←

I think they're past their prime, despite the recent return of Nedved. Their performances in their qualifying group (won by the Netherlands) weren't very impressive.

←

True - although a swansong? This Czech team in its prime would never have 'commanded' odds at 28!

[J.A.W.]

Looking a bit harder, I especially like the Czech Republic at 28/1. On their day, a superb team.

←

I think they're past their prime, despite the recent return of Nedved. Their performances in their qualifying group (won by the Netherlands) weren't very impressive.

←

True - although a swansong? This Czech team in its prime would never have 'commanded' odds at 28!

←

Also true.

[brownie]

How France makes Tier 1 is beyond me.  England or Spain deserve to be higher than them.

←

Would have to agree it this materializes.

In the meantime, a new soccer wonder is emerging with the French hopefuls, the Marseille player Franck Ribery who scored the winning goal in the France vs. England hopefuls match this week.

Hope French coach Raymond Domenech will be wise enough to select him for the World Cup team. But with Domenech, who knows?

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

The enf of the Turkey vs. Switzerland match in Istanbul turned ugly

Yes, "turned ugly" is one way of putting it.......more like deadly. I heard the "projectiles" were actually large pieces of wood hurled by the Turkish fans.

Turkey Puts Itself in Soccer `Hell' as Violence May Lead to Ban

Nov. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Turkish soccer fans hold banners with the slogan ``Welcome to Hell'' when their national team plays at home against foreigners. The intimidation tactics backfired in last week's match against Switzerland, which ended in a fight.

Turkish coach Mehmet Ozdilek aimed a kick at Switzerland's Valon Behrami, and received one from Swiss player Benjamin Huggel. Swiss substitute Stephane Grichting was injured during a brawl and hospitalized with a perforated urinary tract, Sky News reported. Turkish supporters also threw stones at the Swiss team's bus and hurled projectiles onto the field.

While Turkey won 4-2, the team was eliminated from the 2006 World Cup competition because the result wasn't enough to overturn a Swiss win four days earlier. The violence hurt Turkey more than the score: Fifa, soccer's governing body, will investigate the incident and may ban the team from the 2010 tournament.

``We had a terrible image anyway, and the worst thing is that officials provoke this kind of thing,'' said Bagis Erten, editor of Istanbul-based soccer magazine Tam Saha, in a Nov. 18 telephone interview. ``It's a deliberate strategy.''

Sepp Blatter, president of Fifa, the Zurich-based Federation Internationale De Football Association, pledged Nov. 17 to ``act tough'' in its probe of the incident.

The debacle may add to concerns about Turkey's efforts to join the European Union, said Erten. Turkey is counting on the decade- long accession talks to attract more foreign investment to its $300 billion economy. The nation already faces political and economic hurdles to becoming the EU's first Muslim member.

`Scandalous'

Politicians including Germany's Chancellor-designate Angela Merkel and French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy have said Turkey isn't European enough in its culture and traditions.

``The scenes of rioting and violence after the match between Switzerland and Turkey were scandalous,'' German Interior Minister Otto Schily said in a Nov. 17 statement. ``Unfortunately the reputation of Turkish soccer has suffered great damage.''

Turkish officials said the violence began with Swiss provocation during the first leg of the tie in Bern on Nov. 12, and accused Blatter, who's Swiss, of bias.

Swiss supporters jeered during the Turkish national anthem in Bern, and Turkish players and coach Fatih Terim were verbally abused after the match, Turkey's soccer federation said.

English Stabbings

The clashes came after two fans of England's Leeds United were stabbed to death in fights with Turkish supporters before a club competition in 2000 in Istanbul. A Turkish court sentenced the ringleader in that attack to 15 years in prison.

The football associations in England and Turkey were fined in October 2003 after a brawl between players during a match in Istanbul. The melee started after Turkish defender Alpay taunted England's David Beckham for missing a penalty and jabbed him in the face when the players left the field for the interval.

Turkey was also fined $37,000 for the conduct of its fans in a match against Macedonia in June 2003. They threw bottles at opposing players during the match, which Turkey won 3-2.

Some Turkish supporters say they believe the country's past record means it doesn't get a fair hearing in disputes.

The nation ``is like the bad boy in the back row of the class who always gets beaten by the teacher,'' wrote columnist Ece Temelkuran in Istanbul-based Milliyet newspaper on Nov. 18. ``And we're pointing at the good boy in the front row and shouting, `But he did it!'''

EU `Obstacle'

The country shouldn't be singled out for punishment, Deputy Prime Minister Mehmet Ali Sahin told reporters on Nov. 17.

``Blatter spoke like a Swiss supporter, not like the FIFA president, and this was unworthy of him,'' Sahin said. Any decision to punish Turkey will be ``a subjective decision by a Swiss president, and it won't be acceptable to us.''

Fans didn't cause the trouble at the Switzerland match, ``and in fact showed they're more sensible than our footballers and coaches,'' Ibrahim Seten wrote in Vatan newspaper Nov. 18.

Still, the damage to the country's reputation may be difficult to repair.

``It's sad because for a lot of Europeans, soccer was how they first heard about Turkey,'' said Erten. ``It was one of the factors that accelerated Turkey's integration with Europe. Right now, it looks more like an obstacle.''

[Alexander Hawkins]

McBride has already netted twice this afternoon!

[scottb]

McBride has already netted twice this afternoon

I wish I hadn't seen that. The game is televised at 1PM today and I am going to watch it. On the other hand I'm more than pleased to hear it. He came so close in the last match and it's been several matches since he's scored I have been fearing for his position on the team.

[Alexander Hawkins]

McBride has already netted twice this afternoon

I wish I hadn't seen that. The game is televised at 1PM today and I am going to watch it. On the other hand I'm more than pleased to hear it. He came so close in the last match and it's been several matches since he's scored I have been fearing for his position on the team.

Sorry! I should have thought of that. FWIW, that's not a final score (I don't know what is, but I posted as I heard it on the radio!)

Enjoy the game!

[P.L.M]

How France makes Tier 1 is beyond me. England or Spain deserve to be higher than them.

France has win the WC in 1998 and the European Championship in 2000.

They WILL BE in the FIRST HAT.

They have also qualified directly (meaning that they WIN their qualifiying pool).

What is not what Spain has done.

Plus Spain has no record in WC.

England has a good team but always short memory. Before every competition, they put themselves in the favorite but we are still waiting that they win something since 1966.

I think that our dear american/australian soccer's fan see their respective teams much bigger that they really are.

I think also than France could wash up clean both of them with or without ZIDANE and the older players any day, really.

And BROWNIE, don't be so pessimistic, you look like very French on this matter (nothing work in France, the football team is bad, the trainer is terrible etc.)

Everytime I go to Paris (coming from Brussel), the same eternal song starts with the first driver from the first taxi that I take. All the other countries around (particularly Belgium) has always a good laugh about.

I don't know what the French team will do, but I can explain to you all what the Belgium team won't do.

Edited November 27, 2005 by P.L.M

[Jim R]

How France makes Tier 1 is beyond me. England or Spain deserve to be higher than them.

France has win the WC in 1998 and the European Championship in 2000.

They WILL BE in the FIRST HAT.

They have also qualified directly (meaning that they WIN their qualifiying pool).

What is not what Spain has done.

Plus Spain has no record in WC.

England has a good team but always short memory. Before every competition, they put themselves in the favorite but we are still waiting that they win something since 1966.

I think that our dear american/australian soccer's fan see their respective teams much bigger that they really are.

I think also than France could wash up clean both of them with or without ZIDANE and the older players any day, really.

I like to forget about 1998 (when the US team was in disarray, under a different coach). It looks like you'd like to forget the most recent World Cup (btw, that was in 2002 ), when Spain, England, and the US all reached the quarterfinals (so did Senegal, come to think of it).

I don't know what the French team will do

That's it, don't be too bold.

All in fun, of course. I don't know any more than you do.

[brownie]

[And BROWNIE, don't be so pessimistic, you look like very French on this matter (nothing work in France, the football team is bad, the trainer is terrible etc.)

Everytime I go to Paris (coming from Brussel), the same eternal song starts with the first driver from the first taxi that I take. All the other countries around (particularly Belgium) has always a good laugh about.

I don't know what the French team will do, but I can explain to you all what the Belgium team won't do.

Complaining is one of the sports French excel at! And one of the very few sports I have taken part in.

Not sure here how the French team will fare but there are reasons to worry about coach Raymond Domenech who is never able to take the right decisions at the right time. He fiddles and hesitates much too much.

Domenech has yet to decide who will be the main goalkeeper at the 2006 World Cup when the obvious choice is the brilliant Gregory Coupet. Domenech still seems to be stuck on the once brilliant Fabien Barthez.

Barthez - along with Zidane - should be removed from the team to make room for younger players!

It's still a long way to the World Cup. Hope everything will fall into places by then. But I have my doubts

[P.L.M]

I like to forget about 1998 (when the US team was in disarray, under a different coach). It looks like you'd like to forget the most recent World Cup (btw, that was in 2002 ), when Spain, England, and the US all reached the quarterfinals (so did Senegal, come to think of it).

The problem of SPAIN it's that they usually don't go further than... quaterfinal.

That the US team has reach the quater, yes that was impressive but... it's never a guarantee that you will confirm such a performance four years later.

So, I've nothing againt AUSTRALIA or USA but it seems to me that their supporters are very quick to scream victory and dismiss other teams in the most despicable way when they have yet EVERYTHING to proove as a team (quater of final in WC is hardly a performance who puts you up with the greatest team, ever, don't you think?)

As ENGLAND is concerning, it's (sometimes) a great team with a serious potential.

Still they have to WIN something too proove it, forty years after their sole great performance in WC ever (plus the semis in 1990).

Barthez - along with Zidane - should be removed from the team to make room for younger players!

Great luck from the FRENCH that you're not their coach.

ZIDANE has, for me, no equal in FRANCE and in most part of the (football) world, today like yesterday.

You're really FRENCH, I must say.

Very quick to burn the former idol.

I'd like to know with which player(s) you'd like to replace ZIDANE.

Gime some names, please.

Edited November 27, 2005 by P.L.M

[Jim R]

I like to forget about 1998 (when the US team was in disarray, under a different coach). It looks like you'd like to forget the most recent World Cup (btw, that was in 2002 ), when Spain, England, and the US all reached the quarterfinals (so did Senegal, come to think of it).

The problem of SPAIN it's that they usually don't go further than... quaterfinal.

That the US team has reach the quater, yes that was impressive but... it's never a guarantee that you will confirm such a performance four years later.

And your comments about France in 1998 and 2000 are? BTW, I don't in any way intend to "guarantee" a thing vis a vis the US team's chances in '06. I'm simply excited and hopeful (more than ever)- not only because of their '02 performance, but their continued improvement (which I'm sure most european fans haven't had an opportunity to notice) and their run through qualification.

So, I've nothing againt AUSTRALIA or USA but it seems to me that their supporters are very quick to scream victory and dismiss other teams in the most despicable way when they have yet EVERYTHING to proove as a team (quater of final in WC is hardly a performance who puts you up with the greatest team, ever, don't you think?)

I agree that they still have much to prove. I don't understand the part about "dismissing other teams in the most despicable way". Perhaps you can clarify? I haven't heard it, but you know how fans can be.

As ENGLAND is concerning, it's (sometimes) a great team with a serious potential.

Still they have to WIN something too proove it, forty years after their sole great performance in WC ever (plus the semis in 1990).

I don't really look at all of this the same way. If England wins in '06, does that "prove" that they were a great team all along? I think not. To me, what matters is now. England (and every other country) have a different team, different coaches than they had in 1966, '70, '74 etc etc, so why relate their past history to their current chances? The same kind of generalizations occur all the time in the US media with regard to american sports, and it makes even less sense there because of all the player turnover due to free agency. I think that history is important in terms of appreciating and loving the sport, but it doesn't "prove" anything about the current status of any particular national team.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I understand the point about removing Barthez and concur. But Zidane? I see the point, but on his day (they're admittedly becoming fewer and further between), he can do things with a football no other player on the planet can do (I say this fully mindful of Ronaldinho, Robinho, etc.!). From an aesthetic point of view, he must play!

[brownie]

You're really FRENCH, I must say.

Very quick to burn the former idol.

I'd like to know with which player(s) you'd like to replace ZIDANE.

Gime some names, please.

Zidane has been a tremendous player but he is past his prime now, with only flashes of his former brillance. By World Cup time he will be just about finished!

There is no point in having him as the star player of the French team in Germany.

Luckily there is an ambundance of good forwards now, starting with Thierry Henry plus the reappearance of Nicolas Anelka. David Trezeguet, Djibril Cisse and several others are waiting in the wings.

AND the new star player of the French soccer season Franck Ribery! (PLM, I'm sure you read French

These players would make a superb team.

[Brad]

I have to agree with Brownie on this. Didn't Zidane retire but then get pressed back into service because of the French team's struggles? If Barthez is gone, good riddance. His moment in the sun was 1998 and that's gone.

Too often, we don't like to admit when our heroes can no longer do what we remember them doing. Sad but true and sometimes better to cut the cord and move on.