WORLD CUP 2006 / GERMANY

[Jim R]

Well, we're less than a year away now, and qualifying is well underway. I know we have a number of football/futbol/fussball/soccer fans here, but since this board was born after the completion of the last World Cup (Korea/Japan 2002, for the hardcore baseball fans who may be reading this ), I thought it would be a good idea to have an official place to begin discussing the 2006 event.

Let's hear about what everyone's teams are doing currently. I know we have supporters of several european teams here (France, Spain, England... Germany?). Who else? How are your teams faring in the qualification process? What's your outlook in terms of your team's chances for success next year? Who are your favorite players? Which important players from '02 might be absent from your squads? Talk about any aspect of the game you like- I'd rather read it from a fan's perspective than getting it from some official website.

I haven't seen too much support given to the U.S. team (still trying to earn their respect with a lot of people, no doubt), and I'm not sure that's going to change any time soon, but I'm a loyal follower (have been since we qualified for Italia '90). I still don't yet see the U.S. as a serious contender for the cup, but we are so much deeper with talent now than we were in the 90's, I still look forward to the possibility of once again advancing into the later rounds as we did in '02. Playing on european soil will be very different from the asian experience, and of course the luck (or lack thereof) of the draw will be very important. We were fortunate to have faced arch-rivals Mexico in the second round in '02, as we knew them so well. We also earned some respect at that time in the way we held our own against the Germans in the round of eight. We still have a formidable defense, IMO, anchored by our depth at the goalkeeper position. We still have a very cohesive attack (especially as compared to the teams of the 90's) and are far more capable of playing a possession game, but probably have our greatest weakness when it comes to finishing. We create our share of chances, and we can score when we attack quickly and with numbers, but we don't have many powerful shooters who can score from outside the area, nor any great individual threats who can take on multiple defenders at a time. Although we're currently atop the Concacaf table, the recent win against Trinidad & Tobago was somewhat unconvincing (should have been at least 3-0 or 2-0, instead of 1-0), due to poor finishing. Up next is Mexico (we get them in the U.S. this time, thankfully).

Well, that's a start... tell us what's happening with your team!

[tjobbe]

......(France, Spain, England... Germany?). ......

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mhhh why the question mark behind the host ? we are surely playing the turnament, and just haven't lost against The Netherlands despite an aweful performance (best basis for a coming WorldChampion, isn't is...)

The Question mark should be behind England (lously last game against Denmark)

Cheers, Tjobbe

[kenny weir]

Australia lost all its matches at the Confederations Cup in Germany, after which coach Frank Farina was quickly replaced by Dutchman Guus Hiddink. Ditching Farina is a move that prolly should've happened a year earlier.

The national squad has just been through a training camp in the Netherlands. To get to the cup, the Socceroos must beat the Solomon Islands - should be easy, but with the Soocceroos ya never know - and then the biggie: Home and away matches against the fifth-placed South American side. Colombia, I think it'll be.

I remain both hopeful and pessimistic!

Meanwhile, a new 8-team A-League kicks off next weekend in what is widely perceived as a last-ditch project for the game to get its act together in Australia. Soccer here has long been dragged down by the passionate but stupefyingly boring and pathetic clashes of rival ethnic sectors, with only the odd riot to liven things up. Ha ha.

I enjoyed the hell out of the last cup - esecially the performances of South Korea and Japan. Incredible to think an Asian team made it ot the semis of the World Cup!

My wish for Germany 2006: Buckets of upsets, with stellar showings by Asian/African side and - gasp! - one of them to make the final. Actually, in that regard, the US would do, too!

Edited August 20, 2005 by kenny weir

[Jim R]

......(France, Spain, England... Germany?). ......

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mhhh why the question mark behind the host ? we are surely playing the turnament, and just haven't lost against The Netherlands despite an aweful performance (best basis for a coming WorldChampion, isn't is...)

The Question mark should be behind England (lously last game against Denmark)

Cheers, Tjobbe

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Oops- Sorry, Tjobbe. Looks like I put my foot in it right off the bat. No offense intended toward Germany. The question mark only reflects the fact that I wasn't sure I'd seen a post from any German fans in the past. The threads on the subject here have been quite scattered and inconsistent, and I couldn't remember exactly what fans of the sport had posted, and from where. Also, the topic has often been related to clubs, and not national teams. It seems like many folks do not actually support their home country's team (Brad, Marcus come to mind)... so, I was just unsure of myself in that regard.

I saw the reports of the two games you mentioned, by the way. Funny how we sports fans put so much emphasis on the most recent game. Only one game- and those were only friendlies anyway, right?

[Jim R]

Kenny, thanks for that report. A good report! It sounds like things will be improving for your side. As long as you've got some hope and some passion, the journey should be enjoyable. I share your hopes for some upsets ahead, and one would have to think that it's more and more likely with skill levels rising around the world. And anybody who's willing to even suggest that they might consider thinking about the possibility of perhaps (maybe) giving a bit of support to the U.S. team gets a big from me! I dunno, though... THE FINAL?

[kenny weir]

I share your hopes for some upsets ahead, and one would have to think that it's more and more likely with skill levels rising around the world.

Yep!

[tjobbe]

Hi Jim,

no probs , I'm no longer that big fan although you can recognize that the WC2006 is already putting its marks on this years Bundesliga season.

A lot of potential candidates tried to get into lower level teams where they are expecting to play permanentely versus being a "high profile member of the Bench team" in a Top team. (as head coach Kliensmann indicated to only nominate those who are really "playing in there teams")

Anyway, I foresee the German 2006 football team - sorry "Soccer" for you- will be much younger, more hungry then the last EM team of Portugal 2004 and at potentially playing the type of football shown during the ConfCup recently...

Cheers, Tjobbe

BTW: when I was kid back in 1974 I was watching the Munich final against the Johan Cruffs.. and my father send me out of the living room after the 1:0 of Neeskens as I was cheering the wrong - the Orange- team....

...those follow-up matches are "classics" and full of emotians since then.

Edited August 20, 2005 by tjobbe

[Alexander Hawkins]

Four players to watch:

Robert Huth for the Germans. Young Chelsea defender - very big bloke! - and a class act.

And of course, Zidane and Makelele back for France! IF the French qualify, sparks could fly - this'd be Zizou's swansong...

Rounding out my - admittedly Chelsea biased - contribution - I say watch for Frank Lampard in the England midfield. Some would regard him as the best midfielder playing the game at the moment. On last season's showing, that's a good shout.

England were truly dreadful against Denmark. On Tuesday, we'd called ourselves favourites for the World Cup; on Wednseday evening, we were going to be lucky to qualify for it. Ah, I love our tabloid media!

P.s. I agree with all the sentiments about African/Asian sides doing well. But also, I'm a sucker for genius: so if Brazil are going to win it, but playing beautiful stuff - I say bring it on!

[Gary]

The Question mark should be behind England (lously last game against Denmark)  

Cheers, Tjobbe

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I hope all Englands future opponents have a question mark against England on the basis of one friendlies result.

You never know a heavy defeat may be a good omen, I remember one of the finalists of the last world cup suffering a heavy defeat in the qualifiers at home.

Edited August 20, 2005 by Gary

[J.A.W.]

BTW: when I was kid back in 1974 I was watching the Munich final against the Johan Cruffs.. and my father send me out of the living room after the 1:0 of Neeskens as I was cheering the wrong - the Orange- team....

No no, you were cheering the right team...

[scottb]

I've seen some US press saying it is unrealistic to expect the US to repeat their performance of 2002. I understand this time it's not on "neutral" Asian soil and I remember how they needed help from the Koreans to squeak out of the first round but I think they could reach the later rounds.

The first point, however, is the US is a team whose success will rely on the draw of the tournament. If they end up in a tough group. They will probably bow out early. With the proper group pairing, I think they will grow in confidence into the later rounds and could pull off some upsets.

I think most teams still don't give the US enough credit. Both the individual players who are in foreign leagues (How does Landon Donovan not get playing time in the Bundesliga?) and as a team. This may give the US a chance to suprise some people.

I think other countries look at the US brand of soccer and think it's inferior. It is different and previously was inferior but now it's just different. The US is physical and I think US players are more fit and able to play at a higher pace for longer than some teams who have more skill.

I think Mexico's strong showing at the Confederation Cup should also give the US confidence and let the world know CONCACAF is playing better soccer these days. Mexico beat the US in Mexico City in their last meeting but prior to that the US has played the Mexicans well all the way back to the World Cup of 2002.

[brownie]

The French national team redeemed itself this week by scoring 3-0 against Ivory Coast in a friendly match as Zinedine Zidane made his comeback with the team and Thierry Henri proced useful to the national team - for a change!

France has four matches ahead to qualify for the 2006 Cup all within the next few weeks. They will compete against the Faroe Islands, Ireland, Switzerland and Cyprus. The team cannot afford to lose any of these matches.

The September 7 match against Ireland in Dublin will probably decide the team qualification.

[chuckyd4]

For sentimental reasons (long story), I am currently rooting for Ghana's Black Stars. And so far, so good - they are currently heading for a spot in the qualifying finals (forgive me if my terms are wrong, but hopefully you know what I mean). They actually managed to pull out a 2-0 victory back in June over the group favorite South Africa, which is what propelled them into first in their division. All that's left is a match against group worst Uganda, and one against Cape Verde.

I think it's okay to use the phrase of Kumasi's professional team here: Wo kum apem, apem be ba. (You kill a thousand, a thousand more will come).

Oh yeah, the victory over S.A. was in Johannesburg, as well, so that was especially impressive.

[B. Goren.]

The French national team redeemed itself this week by scoring 3-0 against Ivory Coast in a friendly match as Zinedine Zidane made his comeback with the team and Thierry Henri proced useful to the national team - for a change!

France has four matches ahead to qualify for the 2006 Cup all within the next few weeks. They will compete against the Faroe Islands, Ireland, Switzerland and Cyprus. The team cannot afford to lose any of these matches.

The September 7 match against Ireland in Dublin will probably decide the team qualification.

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brownie, if I understand you correctly, you dont even count the Israeli team. To be honest, I think you are right....

I cant believe we have too many chances in Switzerland next month.

[brownie]

brownie, if I understand you correctly, you dont even count the Israeli team. To be honest, I think you are right....

I cant believe we have too many chances in Switzerland next month.

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Did not want to mean that

On the contrary, we have good reasons in France not to shortsell the Israeli team. A lot of French soccer fans still remember the 2-3 defeat back in 1993 which eliminated the national team from the 1994 World Cup in the USA. Huge disappointment that came after hopes were raised skyhigh after France won the 1992 European championship!

Edited August 20, 2005 by brownie

[P.L.M]

Huge disappointment that came after hopes were raised skyhigh after France won the 1992 European championship!

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FRANCE, the 1992 EUROPEAN CHAMPION?

Gasp! That's news for me who thought that DANEMARK was the winner. And FRANCE out during the first round.

FRANCE has win twice the EUROPEAN. In 1984 (PLATINI's years) and 2000 (ZIDANE's one).

In 1992, MARSEILLE have win the CHAMPION'S LEAGUE (first of the name).

Maybe you're mixing the two event.

[Jim R]

I hadn't looked at the FIFA world rankings for awhile, so I just took a look. Does anyone pay much attention to this?

Rank Team Pts

1. Brazil 837

2. Argentina 782

3. Netherlands 780

4. Czech Republic 777

5. Mexico 770

6. USA 768

7. England 743

8. Spain 739

9. France 737

9. Portugal 737

The first thing that occurs to me whenever I see Mexico ahead of the US is that we've done very well against them over the past several years (despite the most recent loss by the US in Mexico City)...

[Alexander Hawkins]

Yeah these rankings are funny - I'm not sure how it's calculated precisely, but it's a strong example of the inferiority of quantitative methodology to qualitative!

I mean this wih all due respect to the US and Mexico - both of whom I think are good teams (and I agree that in Europe we tend to undersell the US game in particular) - but I'm not sure that these teams are better than Italy, Spain, Portugal, France etc...

[scottb]

I'm a US supporter and think they don't get all they deserve as I mentioned before but they are NOT the sixth best team. I would guess they are somewhere between 10 and 15 MAYBE. Besides the usual powerhouses that should be ahead of them, there are some strong European sides that don't get the credit they deserve either. Denmark (just ask the English) and Poland (remember WC 2002) as well as others. The African teams have been improving as well.

[brownie]

Huge disappointment that came after hopes were raised skyhigh after France won the 1992 European championship!

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FRANCE, the 1992 EUROPEAN CHAMPION?

Gasp! That's news for me who thought that DANEMARK was the winner. And FRANCE out during the first round.

FRANCE has win twice the EUROPEAN. In 1984 (PLATINI's years) and 2000 (ZIDANE's one).

In 1992, MARSEILLE have win the CHAMPION'S LEAGUE (first of the name).

Maybe you're mixing the two event.

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You're right and I wrong. I mixed the European championships. And shouldn't have since I attended both finals (1984 at the Parc des Princes in Paris when France won and 1992 in Goteborg when Denmark won!

Should have checked my facts first!

[Jim R]

I'm a US supporter and think they don't get all they deserve as I mentioned before but they are NOT the sixth best team.  I would guess they are somewhere between 10 and 15 MAYBE.

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I would tend to agree, but who knows really- there can be no definitive answer with the way the tournament is set up (and I'm not suggesting that I have a better system in mind).

I would like to see the US team begin to get more respect, but I'd like it to be well earned. I'd like to think that we've begun to earn some, even going back to '94 when we got into the second round and had a respectable (0-1) showing against the Brazilians on July 4th in Palo Alto. The coaching blunders in '98 really set us back for a time in the world's eyes, but recovering from that under coach Arena and performing as we did in '02, I think we're moving into a new era. As I said above, I think our talent pool is vastly superior to what it was 8 or 12 years ago. I'm looking forward to see what younger players might step up and make spots for themselves on the squad that goes to Germany. I'm particularly interested in the development of our attacking players, as I think that's the area where we have the most potential to improve. Due to this new depth of talent, it's more difficult to keep up with player movements, injuries, promotions and demotions from Arena's "favorites" list, so I find this to be an exciting time. We've had a good degree of scoring success overall during qualifying using a variety of different forwards, some of whom haven't seen any action with the team for awhile (Brian Ching, Eddie Johnson to name a few). More recently some new faces have earned a spot (at least on the bench) such as Jeff Cunningham and Taylor Twellman. This is what I personally find very exciting. I think that some of these guys are becoming very good goal-scoring prospects, which is what could provide the final piece in the puzzle for us to become a more powerful side.

[scottb]

Other young talent to watch in the next few years although not all will be ready to make an impact in 2006. Bobby Convey, Eddie Gavin, Freddy Adu and Pat Noonan, and Clint Dempsey.

Changing topics a little to the old school exiting. Like Agoos fizzled in 2002 and had to be replaced a couple games in, I think a couple of the older guys could be eased out even before Germany.

McBride is trying to hold on for one more World Cup and in my opinion should make it barring injury. If he continues to score goal in the EPL, I don't think you can keep him off the field in light of his experience. Claudio Reyna is another story. He has never really impressed me at the national level. This week was a prime example. He was horrible in what I saw of him against T&T on Wednesday, yet he was great in the Man City match today. Until I started watching the EPL, I never was convinced he was all that good. Even as captain he has never really shined for the US when it mattered.

[Jim R]

Other young talent to watch in the next few years although not all will be ready to make an impact in 2006.  Bobby Convey, Eddie Gavin, Freddy Adu and Pat Noonan, and Clint Dempsey.

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Among those, I think Dempsey shows the most promise (at least in the near term). Convey already has a number of caps, but he strikes me as kind of a fill-in guy. He's got good pace and endurance, but hasn't shown me that extra intangible quality that separates the stars from the utility players. He had a pretty decent game against T&T, I thought, but faded late in the game as he tired (blew one good scoring chance, and got himself ejected by virtue of a second yellow on a late challenge). He needs to develop more power when it comes to shots and crosses, IMO. Gavin and Adu are still so young... but they could develop into solid contrubutors. Noonan seems to have enough toughness for the world stage, but his strengths are positioning and hustle. Not the greatest ball skills yet, IMO. Dempsey has shown very well in several matches. With more strength and experience, he should become a much used player.

Changing topics a little to the old school exiting.  Like Agoos fizzled in 2002 and had to be replaced a couple games in, I think a couple of the older guys could be eased out even before Germany.

McBride is trying to hold on for one more World Cup and in my opinion should make it barring injury.  If he continues to score goal in the EPL, I don't think you can keep him off the field in light of his experience.

Agree 100% He's a leader, has a good nose for the goal in addition to his abilities in the air, and he has toughness and heart. I'll never forget the match he had against Coutu and Portugal.

Claudio Reyna is another story.  He has never really impressed me at the national level.  This week was a prime example.  He was horrible in what I saw of him against T&T on Wednesday, yet he was great in the Man City match today.  Until I started watching the EPL, I never was convinced he was all that good.  Even as captain he has never really shined for the US when it mattered.

Interesting, Scott... I think I felt that way for a long time, but more recently I've come to accept him more for what he does. I don't particularly like to watch him play most of the time (kind of dull to watch such a conservative, workhorse type player), but I think he provides a lot of stability to our game. I think he's gotten much stronger and probably smarter over the past few years. For a long time I feared that he would be unable to overcome all the injuries and have to be replaced by a younger man, but he seems (to me) to have recharged his batteries, despite (or perhaps because of) the rigors of the EPL. At any rate, I think we can play well without him when necessary, but I'm kind of glad he's still around. I'm just glad Earnie Stewart is out of the picture now. Never liked his game at all.

I think Josh Wolff's stock has gone down (at least in my eyes it has)... not sure about Clint Mathis, either. I'm really curious to see what some of the newer guys can do... but as you say, it may be too late to give them serious consideration for Germany at this relatively late stage. Not an older player, but I've been far less impressed with Beasley's play since he's been back from europe. He seems tentative and weak compared to the way he played in '02.

I hope Eddie Pope will be fully fit come June. What do you think of Onyewu? Tremendous potential there, IMO. Like Bocanegra, the kid is a pretty lethal threat with his head on corners and set pieces!

[scottb]

I think Pope is still good if he's healthy and I like Bocanegra, Hudjuk(sp?) can run all day!

Clint Mathis has never impressed me at any level. And Josh Wolf is speedster with little ability. He wouldn't even travel with my squad! The other guy which I've seen less of lately, which is more than fine by me, is Conner Casey. That guy has ZERO touch. He's certainly no replacement for McBride any time soon! Mc Bride gets a lot of credit for his strength in the air and his work rate, but he's a great passer too. At Fulham he creates a lot of chances for the others with some nice touches around the box. He has also scored some long shots from 20 yds or so that I didn't know he had in him.

I've heard a lot of people dish on Convey but though he's not a scorer (scored two this weekend for Reading however) he's a great crosser of the ball and is versatile. I really like him as a left back making overlapping runs and sending dangerous balls into the box.

As far as Adu not being ready, I'm on the fence on this one. He's not the player he's going to be but even now he's a nice playmaker and is excellent on corners and free kicks.

[Alexander Hawkins]

I think Pope is still good if he's healthy and I like Bocanegra, Hudjuk(sp?) can run all day!

Clint Mathis has never impressed me at any level.  And Josh Wolf is speedster with little ability.  He wouldn't even travel with my squad!  The other guy which I've seen less of lately, which is more than fine by me, is Conner Casey.  That guy has ZERO touch.  He's certainly no replacement for McBride any time soon!  Mc Bride gets a lot of credit for his strength in the air and his work rate, but he's a great passer too.  At Fulham he creates a lot of chances for the others with some nice touches around the box.  He has also scored some long shots from 20 yds or so that I didn't know he had in him.

I've heard a lot of people dish on Convey but though he's not a scorer (scored two this weekend for Reading however) he's a great crosser of the ball and is versatile.  I really like him as a left back making overlapping runs and sending dangerous balls into the box.

As far as Adu not being ready, I'm on the fence on this one.  He's not the player he's going to be but even now he's a nice playmaker and is excellent on corners and free kicks.

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It's interesting to hear the slightly equivocal comments about Adu. Over here a few months back, everybody was raving about him, and the chances of him starting a bidding war between Real Madrid and Chelsea.

I haven't seen him play, but agree that if he's so young, it's going to be difficult to tell how good he is. Certainly, the 'new Pele' spiel we were getting over here must have been bluster.