Jim R Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Um... could somebody pinch me? Is this really happening? I'm still numb from the Dizzy/Bird discovery, the Monk/Trane Carnegie Hall announcement.... ... and... wasn't there something else I'm forgetting?.... Shit, I'd be pretty happy just to hear that Bill Henderson tape, but this is ridiculous. Is this really happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degiorgio Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 this is astonishing news... hope these get tapes get the treatment they deserve by whomever releases them. I have all the so called 'Deluxe Editions', 'Complete Quartet' etc, on Impulse! but would happily pay all over again for updated editions with these new found sessions included. KD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I've been on vacation, so bear with me here, but... is this the first/original/main thread on this topic? I mean... it seems kind of "quiet" here, considering the magnitude of this discovery... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 This is the main thread. . . . I know of quite a bit of off board emailing about this stuff, but yeah, it's sort of "numbingly" amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgraham333 Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I've been on vacation, so bear with me here, but... is this the first/original/main thread on this topic? I mean... it seems kind of "quiet" here, considering the magnitude of this discovery... ← I missed this too when it was first posted. I don't venture into the Discography forum as often as I do some of the others. I posted a duplicate thread in Misc. Music, but deleted it after several links were posted to the original material. This is by no means meant as a criticism, but I hope we don't have to wait as long for this material to be commercially available as we did for the Bird & Diz Town Hall. I know a lot of work goes into getting stuff like this to market and when you involve a corporate machine like Impulse! it can take a while. That's why sometimes early news of these amazing discoveries can be a mixed blessing. We're such an instant gratification society - we almost expect a link to CDUniverse to appear at then end of such threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 True, but at least the Monk/Trane Carnegie Hall material seems to have been processed relatively quickly. I'm still kind of amazed that this thread isn't seeing more action... (despite the private communication that Lon mentions)... maybe there are more Trane fans on vacation than I'd figured... or maybe we're all getting kind of blase' about great discoveries with the incredible string we've been on? ... or, maybe I AM actually dreaming this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I think we're all in shock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 My own enthusiasm is a bit dampened by the fact that I sincerely believe we'll have to wait quite some time for this material to become cds ready to distribute. And I have a nagging bit of fear that if this lands in the hands of a particular reissue producer he'd deem about one third or more "unfit for release" and I'd be one frustrated dude. So. . . I'm holding back my excitement. The music itself is not earthshatteringly different--it's going to be great to hear and study, but it's in some sense "more of the same" for the most part. . . . I'm most excited I think aobut the ALS material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 It's going to get Schaapped on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I've no real complaints about Phil, especially compared to some here. I was thinking more along the lines of the likely custodian of these tapes, Michael Cuscuna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave9199 Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I really want to hear the '66 & '67 unreleased Impulse sessions. These would really finish the picture of Coltrane's musical history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7/4 Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 That's why sometimes early news of these amazing discoveries can be a mixed blessing. We're such an instant gratification society - we almost expect a link to CDUniverse to appear at then end of such threads. ← http://cduniverse.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 The music itself is not earthshatteringly different--it's going to be great to hear and study, but it's in some sense "more of the same" for the most part. . . . I remember when Pete started sharing his Trane boots with me. One of the first things he said was something like, "Thre's nothing really DIFFERENT here, it's just another chance to hear the same thing in a different way." For those of us who can't get enough of that type of thing, that's good enough. Really, though, I'm kind of dumbstruck about this discovery. I mean, really, HOW MUCH TRANE IS THERE? The guy only lived so long, only played so may hours, and surely it wasn't ALL recorded? Even if it was, you gotta tap out sometimes. But shit still keeps getting uncovered, in quantity, nearly 40 years later. The mind reels, and pun only partially intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 I understand the "more of the same" comments, but I'm still very excited about hearing more from some of these sessions, especially BALLADS, and the session with Johnny Hartman. Every since I heard the latter album all those years ago, I have been hoping and dreaming that somebody might someday discover more material from that masterpiece of a collaberation, which after all was less than 32 minutes in total length. It doesn't even bother me all that much that "Afro Blue" is supposedly weak... I'm eager to hear what occured on those alternate takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Well, I didn't mean the "more of the same" as derogatorily as it may seem I did (though I'm less excited about the new Hartman/Coltrane material as I really have never been crazy about that session). More of the same, at this caliber overall, is great news! I'd LOVE to hear this stuff, all of it, but I'm not allowing myself to begin foaming at the mouth for it. . . because I think it will take a long time to appear. I hope I'm wrong! I'll get excited as soon as I see release dates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 Well, I didn't mean the "more of the same" as derogatorily as it may seem I did ← Nah, I understood what you meant. And, I know the Hartman session won't be everybody's highlight... just a longtime dream of mine that this would happen. Anyway, there's definitely something for just about every Trane fan here, it seems. As Jim says, in addition to what's been unearthed in the past, the scope of this is just.... (enter adjective that hasn't been abused ) I also suspect you're right about the waiting time on this, and I have the same concerns about partial release. Oh well, I'll take what I can get, and I'm willing to be patient... ... within reason, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregK Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 alright, hasn't enough time passed already? Are any of these ready for release yet?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Yeah right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Going back to the original article quoted: “John Coltrane in Rudy Van Gelder's Studio" Names & Numbers, no.33 (April 2005): 2–7; no.34 (July 2005): 3–9, errata 14–15 Introduction. In September 2004 the New York City auction house Guernsey’s asked me to serve as a historical consultant, cataloguer, and writer in preparation for its first jazz auction, to be held February 20, 2005, at the new jazz venue at Lincoln Center. The auction embraced materials from the estates of John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Thelonious Monk, Benny Goodman, Eric Dolphy, and Gerry Mulligan, as well as items from Louis Armstrong in the possession of his manager Oscar Cohen (who became president of Associated Booking Corporation following Joe Glaser’s death in 1969), and various images and a trumpet from a living musician, Clark Terry. Early in December 2004, as Guernsey’s head Arlan Ettinger related it to me, Naima Coltrane’s daughter Saida* (also known as Antonia Andrews) and Saida’s brother Jamail Dennis were delivering paper items to the auction house: musical manuscripts in John Coltrane’s own hand; a letter from Bill Evans to John Coltrane just after Evans quit Miles Davis’s sextet; a postcard from Wayne Shorter, in Marseilles, to Mr. and Mrs. J. Coltrane (“Europe is a drag. I mean really. Just another gig and a place to practise and/or rehearse.”); Shorter’s hand-drawn portrait of Davis; and so forth. At this point, Jamail said to Arlan, “Oh, we have some tapes. Would you be interested in them?” “TAPES?!,” replied Arlan. During the last three weeks of 2004 I had the unbelievable privilege of identifying and cataloguing the contents of digital copies of 35 reel-to-reel tapes, the contents of which proved to be mainly unreleased recordings by John Coltrane for Impulse! Records at Rudy Van Gelder’s studio in Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey, from 1962 to 1964. I submitted my essay to Guernsey’s the evening of January 2, 2005. Coincidentally the following morning Guernsey’s phoned to report that attorneys for the Impulse! label had just threatened a lawsuit if the reels were not withdrawn from the auction. This was done, and accordingly the essay that appears below was withdrawn from the auction catalogue. Two home-made tapes, respectively of Ornette Coleman (tape AA28) and Bill Henderson (AA32), remained in the auction, since both were private recordings and hence neither evoked a contractual dispute. Hopefully Arlan Ettinger can broker some sort of deal that eventually will lead to these recordings becoming available to the jazz public. In the meantime I find myself in a position to make rather monumental additions and corrections to existing Coltrane discographies. The tapes were badly disordered, with wrong reels in the wrong boxes, misidentification in listings of contents on the tape boxes, and mislabeling of the boxes. In the essay that follows, “AA” refers to Guernsey’s arbitrary in-house cataloguing of materials received from Saida (i.e., Antonia Andrews). “JD” refers to materials received from Jamail Dennis. Headings such as “Tape 7 of 1962” refer to labels that Saida put on the tape boxes. These labels proved often to be incorrect or out of order, but I have given them nonetheless, because they are attached to the artifacts. In nearly all instances, Rudy Van Gelder may be heard giving tape master numbers, titles, and take numbers. Of course his announcements from the control booth take precedence over any other sort of ad hoc cataloguing of these materials. In numerous instances where variant titles occur or where an entirely unreleased session has now emerged, Van Gelder’s numbering accords with tape master numbers given in David Wild, The Recordings of John Coltrane (Ann Arbor, MI: 2nd. ed., 1979). Consequently I am deeply indebted to David for the extent to which his work has enabled me to sort out these tapes. Does anyone know what's going on with these tapes? I'd be interested to find out if these are ever going to see the light of day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyo Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I really want to hear the '66 & '67 unreleased Impulse sessions. These would really finish the picture of Coltrane's musical history. Yeah, I wonder why they still haven't reissued Cosmic Music over here. The unedited and non- overdubbed tracks from that session (some also issued on "Infinity" I think) would be great to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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