bertrand Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 (edited) In an interview with Leroy Jones/Amiri Baraka (which must be from 1959 since Wayne is with Maynard Ferguson at the time), Wayne Shorter says he is thinking about doing an album of Monk compositions. Of course, nowadays, these are a dime a dozen, but back then, they were still a rarity. I know that Steve Lacy was one of the first to record a Monk tune ('Work' 11/1/57) without the composer present, but was there anyone else at that time? If Wayne had actually done this album in '59-'60, would he have been the first to record an all-Monk program? Thanks, Bertrand. Edited July 27, 2005 by bertrand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Barney Wilen did a Monk programme on his Tilt album (11 January 1957) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 One of Steve Lacy's very first album (recorded in 1958 for NewJazz/Prestige) was 'Reflections', an all-Monk compositions date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 According to the OJC blurb, Griff & Lock's "Lookin' At Monk" (Jazzland 939, rec. Feb. 7, 1961) was #2 - "The only previous all-Monk effort by someone other than Monk himself was Steve Lacy's Reflections." If my info is correct, the Wilen had other tracks mixed with Monk. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Yes, the Wilen album combines two sessions, the first (7 january) has some Gillespie tunes and other bebop staples, the second session features 4 Monk tunes. Two more Monk tunes were recorded but not released at the time. That second session certainly seems like an attempt at an all out Monk fest! Does anyone know how the original Tilt LP was conceived? Was there an all-Monk B-side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 If my info is correct, the Wilen had other tracks mixed with Monk. Mike ← Wilen's album 'Tilt' was recorded in two sessions in January 1957. The first session had no Monk tunes. The second one (with Jackie Cnudde on piano) was an all-Monk session. The Monk tunes recorded at that session were 'Hackensack', 'Blue Monk', 'Mysterioso' and 'Think Of one'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 The Monk tunes recorded at that session were 'Hackensack', 'Blue Monk', 'Mysterioso' and 'Think Of one'. ← plus 'We See' and 'Let's Call This', not released at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Mais oui, bien sur! Checked the original CD issue of 'Tilt' which did not have those two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 I know that Steve Lacy was one of the first to record a Monk tune ('Work' 11/1/57) without the composer present... ← Hmmm.. even if you said "besides Round Midnight", I think that would seem a dubious statement. Just as an example, forgetting about R.M., I've got five versions of Ruby My Dear (by five different artists, without Monk present) in my collection that pre-date that Lacy session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Bud did "Off Minor" back in '47. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Wilen was so ahead of things there - EVERYTHING except Hackensack was "first recording apart from Monk" (and I think Hackensack was the same regarding a recording under that title as opposed to Rifftide or Oh, Lady Be Good). It's like how Renaud & Jaspar did an all-Gigi Gryce album in 1953! As for the tangential "first Monk tune recorded without Monk on the date" - wouldn't the 1957 Steve Lacy "Work" be very late? I mean, Bud Powell recorded "Off Minor" in 1947 even before Monk did, and there were the 1944 Cootie Williams things (with Bud also) - "Epistrophy" by Cootie in 1942 (or is that composed by Kenny Clarke?), and the 1946 Gillespie "'Round Midnight", etc. Or maybe there is some stipulation that I'm missing? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted July 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 (edited) Forgot to check the recording date for Reflections - I had it confused with Evidence, which is mostly Monk and somewhat later. I also doubted Lacy was really almost the first, but I'm surprised by the number of 'Ruby My Dear' versions. I'll check AMG, as faulty as it is; still don't have the Lord CD-ROM. My statement was based on some puff piece on Lacy that I read and that was obviously an exaggeration. So the first full tribute is the partially issued Wilen session, followed by Reflections, then the Griff/Lockjaw. A Wayne session would have probably fit in between the Lacy and the Griffin. Too bad it never materialized. Wayne also claims somewhere that he made a cold call to Monk's house to offer his services around the late fifties after Griffin left. He got a hold of Nellie, who said that Rouse had just been hired. Don't know how true this story is, or where I even read it. Bertrand. Edited July 27, 2005 by bertrand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Monk was in the studio - but not as a musician - when Art Taylor (with Donald Byrd, Jackie McLean, Charlie Rouse, Ray Bryant and Wendell Marshall) recorded 'Well You Needn't' and 'Off Minor' for his Prestige album 'Taylor's Wailers' in February 1957. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Some Ruby My Dears... Kenny Dorham 1953-12-15 Kenny Dorham Quintet Debut Stan Levey 1955-09-27,28 This Time The Drum's On Me Bethlehem Hank Jones 1956 The New York Rhythm Section Fresh Sound Kenny Drew 1956-09-20,26 Kenny Drew Trio Riverside Sal Salvador 1957-06-03 Tribute To The Greats Bethlehem ===== I'm sure there are still more examples (Miles doing "Well You Needn't" on BN comes to mind). What about 52nd Street Theme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 This Shorter-does-Monk thing is curious, particularly considering that apart from several 'Round Midnights, he only ever recorded Monk stuff while with Blakey: Evidence, 52nd Street Theme - or am I forgetting something? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Mike beat me to it. I was going to say that 52nd St. Theme would have been my guess for the first recording without Monk present (excepting I suppose Cootie Williams' recording of Round Midnight). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Cootie Williams recorded "Epistrophy" in 1942, although it may not count because it wasn't released until the 1960's. Coleman Hawkins recorded "I Mean You" in 1946. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spontooneous Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Mike beat me to it. I was going to say that 52nd St. Theme would have been my guess for the first recording without Monk present (excepting I suppose Cootie Williams' recording of Round Midnight). ← What about Coleman Hawkins' "Stuffy"? Debatable, I know. Don't forget the Hawkins "I Mean You" cut for Sonora, now reissued on Prestige. And this seems like a good place to reopen the topic: I SWEAR TO YOU ALL that one side of Hawkins' solo "Hawk Variation" is a version of "'Round Midnight." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Miles with Bird & Rollins did "Round Midnight" on Jan.30, 1953 Bird with The Dizzy Gillespie Orch did "Round Midnight" in Aug. 1948 Miles did "Well You Needn't" March 6, 1954 Bud did "Epistrophy" for Verve Jan.13,1955 Blakey & Messengers did "Blue Monk" & "Evidence" July 29,1957 on Calliope Blakey & Messengers also did "Justice"(Evidence) for Fontana on Dec 17, 1958. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 In my collection alone, I've got about two dozen pre-'60 Monkless versions of Round Midnight. Not to pile on Bertrand- I think this is an intersting topic... to see how Monk's influence developed (at least on record). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted July 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 (edited) Not feeling piled on at the least. I wrote my initial post in haste (crazy work day, I'm just leaving now), vaguely remembering having read some statement about Lacy. If I had searched AMG 10 seconds, I would not have made the statement. But ultimately, I got the answer I was looking for: had Wayne recorded an entire album of Mokn tunes back in '59, he would have been only the third (if you count Wilen's session). He had what was at the time a very original idea - too bad he didn't pursue it. It's not too late, I guess All this stems from my heavy listening to Monk these days. I made a playlist for my iPod of one version of each of the 70 compositions that Monk recorded. I'm in middle of a second playlist with covers by other artists (including two that Monk didn't record). Some pieces were recorded by Monk only (especially the solo tunes). To answer Mike's question, Wayne has indeed recorded very few Monk tunes in his career. 'Round Midnight' a few times, and 'Evidence/Justice' with Blakey (although never officially). I can't even recall any '52nd Street Theme'. The only other instance I can think of is a version of 'Crepuscule With Nellie' on the 1997 T.S. Monk CD Monk On Monk. Don Sickler (who arranged the session) proudly told me that: a) Wayne was actually present in the studio (not overdubbed, as he often is when he guests these days) b) Wayne takes an actual solo, which according to Sickler was never 'allowed' before on this particular Monk tune, which is usually played straight through. Hearing Wayne play one man's tribute to his wife after having just lost his own under terrible circumstances is quite moving. He sounds incredibly happy and lighthearted, considering this fact. Bertrand. Edited July 28, 2005 by bertrand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 I wonder how a Shorter Monk tribute would sound? Strikes me it wouldn't necessarily suit him..? I don't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Brown Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 Zoot Sims recorded Monk's "Bye-Ya" August 10, 1956. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalo Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 My pre-natal tribute to Monk not only pre-dates my birth, but also his! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalo Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 I wonder how a Shorter Monk tribute would sound? Strikes me it wouldn't necessarily suit him..? I don't know... ← I agree that this would be sort of an odd match-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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