Bozo Brit blogger calls Miles a fraud

[Christiern]

Here's a largely clueless piece on Miles Davis. The anonymous writer brings up some valid points, but he is so biased as to practically invalidating them. I'd be interested in hearing comments.

http://www.mr-agreeable.net/stubbs/default.asp?nc=5950&id=71

Edited July 17, 2005 by Christiern

[7/4]

So weak was his playing that it had to be overdubbed on his earliest recordings.

Eh? Did overdubbing exist then?

[7/4]

In the Sixties, Davis lived off the innovations of Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter and then, in his electric, Bitches Brew phase, the principal author was keyboardist Joe Zawinul, later of Weather Report. Davis was the ringmaster and whipcracker, never the talent. I

Never the talent?

[7/4]

like mixing gravy, ice cream and malt whiskey

Don't knock it until you've tried it, Mr. "Agreeable".

I think I'd skip the gravy and ice cream.

Edited July 17, 2005 by 7/4

[Kalo]

Was this written by the love-child of Philip Larkin and Stanley Crouch?

I agree that there are some valid points there, but the conclusions, such as they are, don't really follow from them. Miles may have been a lot of things, but a fraud? Some of the points read like Larkin, who found Miles's tone lifeless, joyless, and pinched. Some read like that big article by Crouch in the New Republic a dozen or more years ago, where he took Miles to task for betraying his greatness by embracing fusion, retrogressive badass racial stereotyes, and macked-out clothes.

Some of the assertions in the article are downright odd: "So weak was his playing that it had to be overdubbed on his earliest recordings." Huh?

And how about this one: "Furthermore, his music has spoken down the years not to black experience but to white, European lifestyles. There’s a tidy chintziness about Kind Of Blue, for instance, that leads logically to the old theme music to Tomorrow’s World or background music at Seventies Ideal Home Exhibitions."

This piece is all about striking an attitude. Sometimes pieces of this sort can be thought provoking, but I think you captured the overall impression of this one, Chris, with your phrase "largely clueless."

[Rosco]

Lazily written by an ill-informed pseud.

How dare he mock Earth Wind and Fire's wardrobe!

[Christiern]

So weak was his playing that it had to be overdubbed on his earliest recordings.

Eh? Did overdubbing exist then?

←

It was possible (Sidney Bechet's one-man band on Victor), but never with satisfactory results--I'm afraid this guy (the blogger) is fantasizing.

[sidewinder]

...that leads logically to the old theme music to Tomorrow’s World

Hey, I like that one ( ). One of Johnny Dankworth's finest !

Edited July 17, 2005 by sidewinder

[marcello]

This is so far off the mark:

"his “innovations” were principally in personnel changes and it was the personnel who were principally responsible for the innovations."

And that bull that you have to be black and poor to create jazz is demeaning and just plain cruel. Forget about todays artists; What about Duke Ellington?

[Jazz Kat]

Here's why it's signed, annoynomous?

[Jazzmoose]

This is so far off the mark:

"his “innovations” were principally in personnel changes and it was the personnel who were principally responsible for the innovations."

←

Is it?

[clifford_thornton]

Not entirely - he was a master at creating a group aesthetic, an orchestral vision whittled down to a small group. Shit, there's nothing wrong with having four Strayhorns in the mix, is there?

[Jad]

"Kill Your Idols" style of a piece, that has a few points I actually agree with (I've felt Bill Evans is more responsible for the feel of KoB than he gets credit for, and the Gil Evans albums should've had Evans' name over Miles', but that's marketing for ya) but to outright dismiss everything he's done is irresponsible and ill-informed.

[JSngry]

Not entirely - he was a master at creating a group aesthetic, an orchestral vision whittled down to a small group. Shit, there's nothing wrong with having four Strayhorns in the mix, is there?

←

Well, yeah. I mean, how many of Wayne's albums sound like Miles albums from the same period? How many of Herbie's albums? Ron's? Tony's? Chick's? Holland's? Jack's? Trane's? Red's? PC's? Philly's? Sonny Fortune's? And so on... And how many of those guys went on to lead bands that sounded like Miles' bands? Hell, a simple comparison of how Miles played "In A Silent Way" with how Zawinul played it ought to be proof enough that Miles not only took from others, but that he molded what he took into something uniquely his own, Ain't nothing cheap (or easy) about that.

To confuse the true genius of leadership with the mere explotation of hired hands is so fundamentally wrong as to be both sad and frightening. Do they actually let people who think like that loose in society?

[Jim Alfredson]

The "article" can be dismissed on the fact that the writer is anonymous. If you can't even put your name to it, shutup.

[Jazzmoose]

Speaking as a moose, I resent that...

[marcello]

Not entirely - he was a master at creating a group aesthetic, an orchestral vision whittled down to a small group. Shit, there's nothing wrong with having four Strayhorns in the mix, is there?

←

To confuse the true genius of leadership with the mere explotation of hired hands is so fundamentally wrong as to be both sad and frightening. Do they actually let people who think like that loose in society?

←

My point exactly, gentleman.

From interview to interview, the point is made from Miles' sidemen that he was the man to look to for direction. Even Bill Evans.

Although Miles could be a "good thief", so to speak, he was a creator of the highest order and he could play his ass off.

[chris olivarez]

The "article" can be dismissed on the fact that the writer is anonymous.  If you can't even put your name to it, shutup.

←

Agreed. Anybody who writes something like that and doesn't sign it is a chickenshit sob.

[Guy Berger]

It doesn't bother me that the article was anonymous. It bothers me that it was stupid.

Guy

[7/4]

It doesn't bother me that the article was anonymous.  It bothers me that it was stupid.

      Guy

←

Sums it up for me.

[Jazzmoose]

I'll go along with stupid, but my main criticism of this article is the complete lack of originality. Is there any knock on Miles in this article that anyone here hasn't heard before at least often enough to cause massive eye rolling when reading them again? I mean, it was a good laundry list of hits on Miles that I've heard ever since I got interested in jazz, but nothing original at all. He could have added something new, even if he had to make it up...

[P.L.M]

The guy name is David Stubbs if you look at his "home" page.

[CJ Shearn]

this piece was a load of crap. The only overdubbing early on in Miles' career I am aware of is on "Miles Ahead".