3 Lew Tabakin Lp for sale or trade.

[Jazztropic]

I have three Lp with Lew Tabakin .Two Used once and the other several times.All Very Nice shape.Burned the to cd and would like to sell them for $15 or trade for cds.Thanks

[Christiern]

It would be nice if you liked Lew well enough not to rob him of royalties.

[Aggie87]

I agree with Chris' sentiment. Trading is one thing, but when you keep a CDR of the title after passing on ownership, that's effectively creating an extra copy of the music for which the artist gets no income.

[robviti]

i'm confused. how is lew denied royalties from the sale of three out-of-print lps that have never been reissued on cd? still, it would have been nice to spell his name correctly.

Edited July 11, 2005 by jazzshrink

[wolff]

Hmmmmm......I assume just about every piece of music(CD/LP) sold in the Offering and Looking For forum has been copied prior to sale. Jazztropic was just honest/dumb enough to say so.

[Jazzmoose]

Maybe 'just about', but not all. If I sell it, it's because I don't want it.

[Aggie87]

I don't copy mine either. I trade/sell things i don't care to keep, or things that i somehow end up with duplicates of. No cdr-ing here. In fact, i could count my cdrs on one hand i think.

[Noj]

Lew hopefully received his due for the albums when they were originally purchased, which was probably not much per record.

Albums are re-sold all the time, yet only because Jazztropic's motivation was different did a problem exist. No money gets deposited in the artists' account during any re-sale.

In order to transfer to CDR Jazztropic had to own/have access to a nice turntable and a stand-alone burner. That means he's not exactly your average music customer, doesn't it? He's probably not somebody with 15 scratched up CDs in a stack on the counter and a hard drive of 5,000 mp3s from illegal networks. He's more likely somebody who has invested thousands of dollars in LPs and CDs over the years and takes care of them.

CDRs can be filled with legitimately purchased music, I have hundreds of them from emusic. Yet, the inevitability of people copying albums in their entirety means that CDRs are appropriately associated with artists getting ripped off. No avoiding it.

[robviti]

CDRs can be filled with legitimately purchased music, I have hundreds of them from emusic. Yet, the inevitability of people copying albums in their entirety means that CDRs are appropriately associated with artists getting ripped off.  No avoiding it.

←

so, someone who burns a copy for playing in their car is ripping off the artist, since they should have bought a second copy for that purpose? don't get me wrong, i strongly disapprove of people who make multiple copies of cds and sell them for profit. at the same time, i wonder how many people on the board who are such purists when it comes to cd-rs have bought used or promo cds. the same logic would seem to apply in these cases. and what about the board's blindfold tests? think of the additional sales if everyone involved bought a legitimate copy of the aow.

Edited July 11, 2005 by jazzshrink

[J.A.W.]

Hmmmmm......I assume just about every piece of music(CD/LP) sold in the Offering and Looking For forum has been copied prior to sale.

←

I don't copy mine. I'm selling CDs because I don't want them anymore.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Why is it so difficult to understand the difference between legitimate copying (making a CDR of an LP that YOU own for YOUR use in YOUR car) and illegitimate copying (keeping the copy you made while you were the legitimate owner AFTER you have sold your LP and the rights to own ANY copies of it)?

As long as the owner is doing the copying and keeping the copies, there's no problem. But if you aren't the owner, then the copies are illegal.

Mike

[Christiern]

Mike: "As long as the owner is doing the copying and keeping the copies, there's no problem. But if you aren't the owner, then the copies are illegal."

Exactly my point.

[robviti]

As long as the owner is doing the copying and keeping the copies, there's no problem. But if you aren't the owner, then the copies are illegal.

i didn't know the cd-r i burned when i owned the original suddenly became illegal once i sold, gave away, or lost the original. i'll have to take your word for it. in the end, the result is the same, isn't it. the artist doesn't profit from your buying another copy.

funny how no one has commented on the issue of buying used and promo copies.

Edited July 11, 2005 by jazzshrink

[Christiern]

funny how no one has commented on the issue of buying used and promo copies. 

←

When you buy a used copy the royalty has already been paid (or should have been). If you buy a promotional copy, you are on the receiving end of an illegal sale.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Legal prognostications aside, I was under the impression that a small artist/royalty fee of sorts is woven into the price for all blank media discs & cd burners in order to 'cover' various situations such as that discussed above. Does anyone have complete working knowledge of the fee structure/process?

[Aggie87]

I don't see a problem with buying used cds, personally. They were rightfully purchased, originally, and royalties were paid. The only thing that has happened is that the ownership has changed hands, and in theory some middleman/men (used cd store, seller on ebay, etc) have made a buck or two in the process. But the creators got the fees they were entitled to.

Same logic as buying a used car. The car company got their money on the original sale. Why would they be upset if people purchase used cars - is it money lost to them because the used purchaser isn't buying a new car??

[jazzbo]

R, that is technically true with the "Audio" recording blanks used in standalone copiers by Philips, HHB and other manufacturers. The price does include a sort of tariff that goes to the record companies, or to the RIAA or some such. Whether any of these dollars trickle down to artists is a mystery (and if I could guess. . . .). . . .

[Christiern]

Whenever I get upset over this sort of thing, I think of how the record and music publishing companies (and RIAA) have ripped off artists for close to a century.

If Roberta Flack's attorney hadn't spotted it when she signed with Atlantic, artists would probably still be charged a percentage for "breakage," an issue that went away with the 78s.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

i didn't know the cd-r i burned when i owned the original suddenly became illegal once i sold, gave away, or lost the original.

Absolutely - just like how you are required by law to destroy all backup copies of software if you sell your original.

You can only have legal rights when you are the legitimate OWNER. If you have sold it, you can't possibly still own it.

Mike

[Jazztropic]

To all of you who seem to love to pass judgement about royalties and what is right and wrong please rexamine everything you do in life.If you are righteous then please allow me to bow before you but if you are self righteous please refraine your negative posts.I am selling real lps not copies of which have been OOP along time never to see release as a cd by the way I had to buy at considerable cost so I could enjoy the music.Who would have thought enjoy the music what a novel idea.So many people on this site bash others when do you enjoy your music being so busy looking to find some post as this.I have paid through the nose for All the Lew Tabackin material I can find and a few direct from Mr Tabackin.All I want to do is get rid of all my records felt this a better way than ebay or used record shop.So go ahead bash some more.

Robert

[Christiern]

Ain't rationalization wonderful?

No one is passing judgment re royalties, merely pointing out the legality issues.

[Noj]

Lew hopefully received his due for the albums when they were originally purchased, which was probably not much per record. 

Albums are re-sold all the time, yet only because Jazztropic's motivation was different did a problem exist.  No money gets deposited in the artists' account during any re-sale.

In order to transfer to CDR Jazztropic had to own/have access to a nice turntable and a stand-alone burner.  That means he's not exactly your average music customer, doesn't it?  He's probably not somebody with 15 scratched up CDs in a stack on the counter and a hard drive of 5,000 mp3s from illegal networks.  He's more likely somebody who has invested thousands of dollars in LPs and CDs over the years and takes care of them.

CDRs can be filled with legitimately purchased music, I have hundreds of them from emusic. Yet, the inevitability of people copying albums in their entirety means that CDRs are appropriately associated with artists getting ripped off.  No avoiding it.

←

FWIW, my post was only intended to identify all the weird issues here. I agree with what Michael Fitzgerald said (excepting the inference that I am confused, if it was directed my way).

Like Chris, I look at the whole thing and think about how artists are ripped off by record companies to begin with. As customers, we ought to do our best to make sure the artists whose music we enjoy get their due.

[wolff]

I'm curious as to what Chris and others thinks about the EU Public Domain labels selling their titles in the USA, where the performances are still protected. Go to Amazon or CDUniverse and search for the labels Proper and Definitive to get an idea of what is going on.

Edited July 12, 2005 by wolff

[Christiern]

I'm curious as to what Chris and others thinks about the EU Public Domain labels selling their titles in the USA, where the performances are still protected.  Go to Amazon or CDUniverse and search for the labels Proper and Definitive to get an idea of what is going on.

←

We don't know if some arrangement hasn't been reached with the artist or estate. When Karl Knudsen used to come over here and stay at my apartment, he spent many hours on the phone and around town talking to widows, lawyers, etc. to obtain rights for Storyville releases. Often, he could have released material with impunity, but he had an honesty that, I'm afraid, is not a character trait among record company owners.

I know little about Proper and Definitive, beyond the fact that they exist, but are they the labels that pirate U.S. reissues like Uptown's Mingus set? If so, they should be put out of business, IMO.

[StormP]

I met Karl Emil in Aalborg in early 1950's. His concert was Henrik Johansen's Jazz Band. Kind of harsh New Orleans in those days. I recorded some of the music on a B&O tape machine, the one with the 3 speed turntable on top. Quite a machine at the time. The recording is so so, but not balanced properly. It was forgotten until recenly when I dug out some old 7" tape reels.

Thanks for your ealier Storm P quote about the saxophone. Maybe you have some more? Write them in English for everybody to enjoy.