A Reissue Producer Pimps His Work

[robert h.]

Kevin, I know perfectly well what I am talking about. Perhaps you think too highly of yourself.

There are lots of jerks in music - and worse. Miles Davis is example number one. Blakey was an abuser. Ben Webster was far from a sweetheart. Getz was far more of a jerk than Brookmeyer. Lee Morgan wasn't exactly a model citizen. Woody Shaw was a complete asshole, lost his family and career because of his attitude brought on by chemical imbalance as much as chemical abuse. Are you knocking Woody or refusing to buy the new Sony reissue?

Do you refuse to buy Miles records? Don't think so, you continue to pour money into the estate of a man who beat women, held loaded guns to people, threatened people he didn't like, pimped, was a major cokehead, and hardly lifted a finger to raise or support his own children. Brookmeyer is Mother Theresa in the jazz world, comparatively.

You buy Miles - but because Brookmeyer didn't give you the depth of respect you feel you are entitled to, you come on a board and dismiss him as a "jerk".

Obviously, it has nothing to do with any high moral ground, if it were, you would not be buying Getz - Miles - Blakey - cripes, you woouldn't buy half the stuff you do. It's about YOU - and perceived slight of you by Brookmeyer.

My point is very simple.

Comments like yours DON'T HELP THE MUSIC, man. They HURT it. They make record company doorknobs shy away from reissuing artists other than those in the narrow band of current conservative old-guy orthodoxy.

Stand back, take Kevin's ego out of the equation, and focus on things that HELP. Positive reinforcement of record company decisions to put out stuff that most of us don't have, and doesn't stick to the safe old oft-recycled stuff. POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT of decisions to reissue stuff like this, Kev - but comments like yours are shooting in one's own foot and just lead to record companies not reissuing less-known stuff, even by artists the divine one has not adjudged to be 'jerks'.

Please make comments that help, and take a pass on the other stuff that does nobody any good.

Edited July 10, 2005 by robert h.

[Christiern]

I remember the Brookmeyer flare-up at JC. He did overreact, but--as I recall--not without cause. It was not enough to make him deserve the poisoned pixels aimed at him here. I guess overreaction begets over reaction--we've all seen that happen.

Getting back to the subject at hand, it sounds to me like the disgruntled reissue producer has an axe to grind and that it goes beyond the Brookmeyer album. My feeling is that one should not put out an album that the artist doesn't want released. Then, too, I have to wonder why Bob was paid an advance--I have produced many albums for reissue, but I have never heard of the artist being paid an advance. Hey, it's difficult enough to get an advance on new material.

[rostasi]

When I read the letter I get a different feel.

I think Belden's emotions can be shown this way:

before Legacy meeting

after Legacy meeting

corporate reality sinks in

protests initial decision

decision is made to release and,

"for fun" he decides to make a point that jazz really does sell

which is laudable, to an extent, but, again, the problem is far bigger than this one incident.

I don't really see some larger "axe to grind" mentality asserting itself here.

I just think that when someone like Belden is so enamoured with the artform

(as he should be), it is sometimes difficult to have to face the reality of the music buying public.

This kinda reminds me of another forum where one of the guys was saying that John Cage was a "star."

---

Now playing: Johann Sebastian Bach - Cantata BWV 125 -2. Aria (A): Ich will auch mit gebrochnen Augen

Edited July 10, 2005 by rostasi

[JSngry]

I find these statements to be of more interest than the simple matter of a specific reissue:

The reason for this email is that at our last Legacy meeting they said that they were going to withdraw the release because 'retail only ordered 800 units'. Then they suggested that the tracks be offered online. But they have no online business. This is from a company that is worth 4 billion dollars and has 28% of the distributed market in a country of 290 million....800 copies? That's either lazy or lame. Or both.

But the larger issues are the sqeeze on jazz as it crowds the limited 'retail' space. Yet they do nothing to push online because it's been balkanized and sent to 'new media', thirty-somethings that are brainwashed to think of music one track at a time. I call this CADD, or Corporate Attention Deficit Syndrome.

Where will this lead? The elimination of the long form album concept and only tracks (selected by a handful of now-aged experts) available on compilations.

For a large, multi-national company with a history of Albums to try to push jazz with compilations based on moods or songs is ludicrous in the age of iTunes.

"JAZZ DOESN'T SELL BECAUSE THE JAZZ BUSINESS IS THE REFUGE FOR THE INCOMPETENT AND MEDIOCRE"

Agree or not, it's definitely something to think about...

[ejp626]

focus on things that HELP. Positive reinforcement of record company decisions to put out stuff that most of us don't have, and doesn't stick to the safe old oft-recycled stuff. POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT of decisions to reissue stuff like this, Kev - but comments like yours are shooting in one's own foot and just lead to record companies not reissuing less-known stuff, even by artists the divine one has not adjudged to be 'jerks'.

Please make comments that help, and take a pass on the other stuff that does nobody any good.

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Some people get shivers up their spine when we put music into boxes or talk about genres. I get shivers when I find people telling other what they can and cannot say on a jazz board, or that our self-censorship will somehow make a bit of difference to the bean-counters. Maybe Kevin is blowing something out of proportion and maybe not, but he has the right to post about it. Frankly, I never thought of buying jazz as a moral crusade. Finally, I don't interact much with musicians, but if I felt one had done me wrong or dissed me personally, hell no I wouldn't buy their stuff, even if it was Miles or Mingus. (Probably just as well I don't hang out with musicians.)

[JSngry]

Brookmeyer's "crustiness" is well-known. Some might say that he's "earned it", or, at least, that it's not something he displays just for his own sadistic glee.

Life does funny things to people, ya'know?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Brookmeyer's a guy who walks the walk and he talks the talk - though in my experience, he's a master of the Thomas Jefferson adage: "The most valuable of all talents is that of never using two words when one will do." He calls 'em as he sees 'em and he's been around.

He's been helpful to me in the past and I have a huge respect for him as an artist, even though he may not be my absolute favorite. He's always doing something interesting and it's always done with integrity.

Mike

[Christiern]

Indeed, Mike

And, "ejp626," no one here is trying to tell Kevin what to say or not say, but when you get personal and call someone a "jerk," you have to expect a reaction from those who either agree or disagree. I was around when Kevin felt offended and I think he made somewhat of a mountain out of a mole hill. Sounds like you are contradicting yourself, btw, for aren't you telling some of us what we can't say? Do you get "shivers" reading your own post on the subject?

[DMP]

Geeze, I always thought the album was pretty good. Although I never could figure out where it came from, and where exactly Brookmeyer fit in to the whole thing... (Columbia Records, in the age of rock, signing Bob Brookmeyer to a one-shot deal?)

[Chuck Nessa]

Geeze, I always thought the album was pretty good.  Although I never could figure out where it came from, and where exactly Brookmeyer fit in to the whole thing...  (Columbia Records, in the age of rock, signing Bob Brookmeyer to a one-shot deal?)

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This record was issued a few years before Columbia got into rock. The "one shot" was undoubtedly facilitated by the participation of Getz - a very hot commodity at the time. IIRC, Getz filed suit against Columbia for making his name more prominent (by color - orange) than the other players including Brookie.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I'm not "overeacting"... just "reacting". I was knocked out of my chair by Brookmeyer's stance, and believe me, a lot of people tried calmy discussing his dissing of a majority of the Jazz Corner posters. His wouldn't take back one word. A lot of people were caught off guard. My reaction was "to heck with him".

It was really pretty strange. I wish the whole thing was still around but I believe a lot of it got deleted. Things weren't helped when DEEP jumped in and stirred it up by basically blasting anyone who tried calling out Bob for insulting everyone.

And if what he said to us wasn't being a "jerk", I'd like to hear a better word.

Look, he is a very well-versed musician who knows the ins & outs of writing and arranging for large and small groups. He's a pro's pro. I have utmost respect for his abilities in this regard. However, the way he treated me personally is why I don't buy his stuff.

As for others in the Jazz field, I have no doubt... none at all... that many of the artists in my music collection are/were jerks. However, none of them did anything to me personally.

Hey, since the subject of this thread is to try and get a Jazz reissue some good press, I'll drop it. I really just wish that Bob Belden had chosen a different artist to push, that's all. And my reasons are personal, not professional.

Later,

Kevin

[Christiern]

It's good that you are up-front about it, Kevin. It's been awhile, so I don't recall the details, but I remember it getting rather nasty and that Bob was way out of line, a very different person from the one I remembered knowing in the early 60s. I don't think Bob is a jerk, but I grant you that he acted like one on that occasion, even if there was some provocation.

Your point about probably supporting artists who are less than nice is a good one. I have met only a handful of artists (more in pop than jazz) whose personality rubbed me the wrong way, but I have not allowed it to impair my enjoyment of their work. Since I am prone to being as outspoken (undiplomatic) as Bob was back then, I'm sure there are artists who saw/see me as a jerk, but that's the way it goes.

[JSngry]

Some of my best friends are jerks.

Hell, most of my best friends are jerks!

[robert h.]

Nothing wrong with having feelings, guys. Let's just not let the personal get in the way of convincing record company tightass kids to reissue great titles.

No use adding fuel to a fire or to react to a wrong with another wrong. If Brookmeyer went overboard, it's best to let him stand on his own, the negative reaction makes him look like a victim instead.

Lots of jerks and worse in music - John Lennon was an utter prick, Geldof has a crusade to hitch his failed career to but is an appaling arrogant dork, Macca is a power hungry manipulator, the list goes on. It's tough to keep track of 'em all and sort them out from the good guys. Too much negative energy to do it anyways.

I just focus on the music. Remembering the outstanding Brookmeyer/Getz 1961 collaboration, the new reissue is really one to look forward to - Getz and Brookmeyer in front of Elvin Jones and Ron Carter.....!!!! And Gary Burton playing with Elvin and Carter for the one and only time?! Who could possibly complain?

[JSngry]

Brookmeyer himself, apparently (see the opening note...).

[Chuck Nessa]

Brookmeyer himself, apparently (see the opening note...).

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AND some of us who bought the damn thing 40 years ago.

Better they reissue Red Allen.

[Jazzmoose]

So, just out of curiosity, how many major label executives read the posts at Organissimo.org anyway?

[Chuck Nessa]

So, just out of curiosity, how many major label executives read the posts at Organissimo.org anyway?

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I'm really tired of "industry insiders" reading and posting under "screen names" here and on other boards. Just shows the insecurities involved.

[robert h.]

"Brookmeyer himself, apparently (see the opening note...)."

Yeah, but he's a jerk, so who cares what he thinks anyways?

Bring it on !!!

[Chuck Nessa]

"Brookmeyer himself, apparently (see the opening note...)."

Yeah, but he's a jerk, so who cares what he thinks anyways?

Bring it on !!!

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Is this the point where we all break out into a chorus of "Both Sides Now"?

[Bill Nelson]

Or call for 'Let's Face the Music and Dance'.

Robert H. can pursue his personal self-censorship on the Org. all he wants. It's his plea that the rest of us 'tone it down' for the phantom industry insiders lurking on the site and making their executive decisions based on the rants and raves. Robert, you have a most vivid imagination in this regard.

[robert h.]

Well Bill, the thread's gotten boring now, and you can cry "censorship" and mock me all you want. If you're read through even a brief sampling of my posts you would be embarrased at how stupid accusing me of wanting to censor the org is. That would be a valid example of vivid imagination.

If you want to shoot down Dexter and Brookmeyer reissues from Columbia and all fall into line like lovely lemmings praising the 36th remastering of Kind Of Blue, then you'll keep on getting more remasterings of the warhorses and stuff like the Brookmeyer will get cancelled. I guess that's what some people here would like. Hey, let's face it - it's pretty risk-free to get another remaster of Kind of Blue.

Anyways, thread's gone too downhill for me anymore, fire away!

[wolff]

The first thing I thought after reading the first post was, "I hope no one from Sony reads that e-mail, or Belden will be looking for a new job."

[Jazzmoose]

Why not pass on both and try something new fer crying out loud. Jazz didn't end in the sixties, you know...

[Michael Fitzgerald]

As for Sony firing Belden, I hardly think so. He's trying to sell Sony "product" and in the end, all that matters to the bean counters that run the media conglomerates is money. If they thought it would make a difference in the bottom line, they'd promote their company as anti-music.

Mike