Bob Brookmeyer, Art Pepper, Gerry Mulligan

[mrjazzman]

i know im going to catch some flak but i wouldn't give you a plug nickel for either of them. i know you're going to ask why and i would just say they're too lightweight for me, they seem to just skim the surface of things. im black so i've been told its a racial thing. WRONG. Pepper Adams is my all time favorite baritone sax sophonist and i like Steve Turre a lot. of course, this is just my opinion

[J.A.W.]

i know im going to catch some flak but i wouldn't give you a plug nickel for either of them. i know you're going to ask why and i would just say they're too lightweight for me, they seem to just skim the surface of things. im black so i've been told its a racial thing. WRONG. Pepper Adams is my all time favorite baritone sax sophonist and i like Steve Turre a lot. of course, this is just my opinion

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Your point being?

[mrjazzman]

they don't deserve the attention they've got in the past, no real point to be made. its just that i don't like these guys for the above stated reasons and was curios as to who agrees or disagrees............mrjazzman

[J.A.W.]

they don't deserve the attention they've got in the past, no real point to be made. its just that i don't like these guys for the above stated reasons and was curios as to who agrees or disagrees............mrjazzman

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So they don't deserve the attention they got just because you don't like them, is that what you're saying? That's going a bit far, isn't it? Sounds pretty arrogant to me.

There are lots of artists I don't like or I'm not interested in, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve the attention they got, that's not up to me.

Edited July 5, 2005 by J.A.W.

[mrjazzman]

as i said, i knew i'd catch some flack but sorry sheldomn ignorant does not apply to me and why go on the personal attack.

[jazzbo]

I didn't quite get all three of those cats when I was first getting into jazz. . . .

But over time I've learned to really enjoy the work of all three. Not necessarily ALL the work of ALL three, but a lot of it.

It's quite fine if you don't dig them, but I don't think they're at all overrated.

[mrjazzman]

arogant........probably, ignorant..........definitly not. read what webster has to say about ignorant........mrjazzman

[mrjazzman]

ok jazzbo, i can accept that. thats what i call respectfully disagreeing...........

[mrjazzman]

ok sheldonm, my feelings have been repaired(smile)

[mrjazzman]

they don't deserve the attention they've got in the past,

Maybe they don't deserve your attention but most of the board member (I would bet) will disagree with you. How about a list of your favorites???

Mark

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live or dead?

[mrjazzman]

mark wanted a list of my favorites. would that be live or deceased?

[mrjazzman]

mark you're trying my patience. now we get sarcasm from mark "wasted". starting to sound like you were offended by my comments. are you related to any of the three, maybe father, uncle or maybe 2nd cousin? sarcasm begets sarcasm

[mrjazzman]

mark, there you go again, more sarcasm "misguided". hey, if you like those three thats cool. this is america, you get to like or dislike whomever. can't get to the meat of your question because of the sarcastic tone of your comments..........

[robviti]

what a waste of (cyber)space.

[mrjazzman]

arogant........probably,  ignorant..........definitly not. read what webster has to say about ignorant........mrjazzman

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I didn't say you were ignorant, just the statement! I'm sure you're a perfectly fine individual!

m-

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the statement, as stated, was an opinion not a representation of a fact, and to say the statement is ignorant and not the person making it makes no sense to me since people make statements

[Dave James]

Back to the subject at hand and getting away from ad hominum attack mode, I'm a huge Pepper fan, IMO outside Charlie Parker, the best post-bop alto saxophonist ever. Mulligan I also like, but maybe more for his compositional contributions than for what he did instrumentally. He's still right up there on my A-list of baritone players, but I'd still put Chaloff and maybe one or two others ahead of him. I do love the CJB stuff though. Brookmeyer I just don't know as well as I should. He plays valve trombone which right away sets him apart from any kind of meaningful "competitive" discusion and he's also a fine pianst and a gifted arranger. I should have more Brookmeyer in my collection than I do, but for whatever reason, he's never really rung my bell.

Up over and out.

[mrjazzman]

mark, there you go again, more sarcasm  "misguided".  hey, if you like those three thats cool. this is america, you get to like or  dislike whomever. can't get to the meat of your question because of the sarcastic tone of your comments..........

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Ok, how's this.......who are your favorite artists, alive or deceased? Good enough?

m-

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deceased, the obvious. on alto parker, adderley, stitt, criss, and benny carter, ernie henry, john jenkins, sonny red, eddie cleanhead vinson, earl anderza, maybe a few other i can't think of right now

living, mclean(don't think he's active), vincent herring, lou donaldson(don't think he's active), frank strozier

shorter list for baritone sax: adams(my favorite) ronnie cuber, leo parker, charles davis?, serge chaloff

trombone, the greatest j.j. johnson, steve turre, al grey, bennie green, robert trowers

[Chuck Nessa]

Compared to my tastes, you seem to be all over the place. No pattern beyond your "attack".

FWIW, I don't think it is very well informed nomatter my agreements.

It seems you are looking for a fight.

[mrjazzman]

dave james, not exactly sure what you mean by post-bop but how could you not consider the likes of Sonny Stitt, Sonny Criss, Cannonball Adderley and Jackie McLean.........mrjazzman

[mrjazzman]

chuck nessa

if you've read all the posts you'll see that im the one under attack for rendering what is obviously an unpopular opinion. but thats ok, i knew i'd catch hell for this. since you're here, if i had my way all of symphony sids comments would be edited/removed from any and all recordings he is on.........mrjazzman

[mrjazzman]

Compared to my tastes, you seem to be all over the place. No pattern beyond your "attack".

FWIW, I don't think it is very well informed nomatter my agreements.

It seems you are looking for a fight.

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if you knew me you'd know that im quite capable of a fight on this forum, that was not my intent with this thread

[kenny weir]

mrjazzman desperately needs the Mulligan Mosaic in his life.

It changed me from being a so-so Mulligan fan to an ardent, passionate, swooning one.

[Chuck Nessa]

chuck nessa

if you've read all the posts you'll see that im the one under attack for rendering what is obviously an unpopular opinion. but thats ok, i knew i'd catch hell for this. since you're here, if i had my way all of symphony sids comments would be edited/removed from any and all recordings he is on.........mrjazzman

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I have read this thread from the start. I think there are legit complaints about the reps of the folks you mention and am willing to debate but think you are too "confrontational" to be a worthy adversary.

I have insisted on including all of Sid's comment to show him for "what he is" and to give context to the era. Do you really want to edit history?

You seem to be trying hard for some sort of "jerk" award.

[sheldonm]

Chuck,

Not to sidetrack an otherwise worthless thread (that I participated in) but what was Symphony Sid like? Did you know him? He's seem a little cheesy but I don't know a lot about him so won't pass judgement! If you would prefer me to start a new thread, I can do that as well.

Thanks,

m-

[Chuck Nessa]

Never met the dude but from what i know, he was an uninformed, opportunistic dude in a small position of power.