Mariah Carey

[Soulstation1]

i've heard 2 songs and liked what i heard

Edited June 29, 2005 by Soulstation1

[jazzbo]

She shore looks purdy.

[JSngry]

She shore looks dark.

What, did she sign up to get Michael Jackson's discarded mellanin?

Them crayzee sellebritties!

[Joe G]

Looks to me like she's trying to cop Beyonce's look.

Look at this - two sentences that begin and end with the word "look".

Don't try that at home.

[jazzbo]

I think you're right.

I'll look at Beyonce's look! -_-

Edited June 29, 2005 by jazzbo

[Soulstation1]

that's ALL jigga's

[wolff]

I think you're right.

I'll look at Beyonce's look! -_-

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Something is wrong with me. When I look at this picture, all I think about is what kind of fish are a half mile off shore.

I don't think Mariah has to imitate anyone's look. Those friggin' legs have been around for 20 years...!!!!

In addition, the only thing wrong with half these R&B singers is over production, over dubbing, multi-tracking of the voice God gave 'em. Give them a mic and 3 guys in the band and I'm as happy as a clam. But, the shit they pull in the studio is just flat out hilarious.

Edited July 1, 2005 by wolff

[Jazzmoose]

Well.........can't say I'm thinking about fishing when I see that photo, but I'll agree with Wolff's comments about the overproduction. B-O-R-I-N-G. Save it for people like Britney who need it...

[chris olivarez]

Also I think Mariah,Whitney etc get far too tied up with their vocal technique. Would the correct word be "oversinging?".

[7/4]

Also I think Mariah,Whitney etc get far too tied up with their vocal technique. Would the correct word be "oversinging?".

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Do you mean singing a dozen notes where one would be fine for a single syllable? That's called melisma. And yes, they're over doing it.

[Jazzmoose]

Also I think Mariah,Whitney etc get far too tied up with their vocal technique. Would the correct word be "oversinging?".

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Do you mean singing a dozen notes where one would be fine for a single syllable? That's called melisma. And yes, they're over doing it.

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They need to study their Anita O'Day!

[jazzbo]

Hey, she did do Russ Freeman's "The Wind" on her fist lp, Mariah did!

BUT that ain't going to sell her millions and millions of records like the legs and gospel-derived vocal pyrotechnics will!

[chris olivarez]

Also I think Mariah,Whitney etc get far too tied up with their vocal technique. Would the correct word be "oversinging?".

←

Do you mean singing a dozen notes where one would be fine for a single syllable? That's called melisma. And yes, they're over doing it.

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Thank You.

[Kalo]

In another thread I described this contemporary style of oversinging as "a miasma of melisma."

I hate this.

Yet I LOVE singers as diverse as Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, Al Green, Marvin Gaye, George Jones, and Harry Nilsson who employ melisma MUSICALLY.

Problem is, with most contemporary singers, whether they have a good voice or not, their singing is needlessly melismatic: just a bunch of show-off wankery.

[JSngry]

Obsession with style and ignorance of substance, that's what it is more often than not.

[jazzbo]

Hmmm. . . maybe . . . and maybe it's the will of the producer? It SELLS. Unfortunately.

[JSngry]

I'm more than happy to blame the producer, but otoh, the talent we're talking about here is such that any producer in his right commercial mind ain't gonna make them do anything too much differently than what they're gonna do anyway.

I mean, most of these women, Whitney especially, have it in them somewhere to make really stirring music that goes for more than the superficial thrills. I mean, Whitney's thing on "Exhale" was riveting precisely because she underplayed her surface and bulked up on her content. A GREAT record, that was, one of the best female pop/R&B vocal records of the last 20 years, imo. And it sold just dandy.

But what and who else in the name-brand arena has tried to mine that territory on a consistent basis? Nobody that I know of, and frankly, I think it's because the artists involved are too damn wrapped up in the whole Diva mentality, not just in their showbiz life, but in their musical/personal life as well. They're so out of touch with their roots that they think it's all about them and their "specialness".

Well hey ladies, take a lesson from all the true greats - let your public face be as glitzy as you want it to be, but when it comes time to sing, deal with the music as something other than a means of self-glorification. True glory is bestowed by others as a result of your efforts. It's not something you create for yourself. Ego is cool, but not when it has no limits.

Edited July 2, 2005 by JSngry

[jazzbo]

I still think it's motivated by what sells, and these divas want to be front and center popular and you have to sell like crazy to keep that up. Producers can be 'suasive, specially if he can predict a continuation of an overthetop lifestyle.

So I agree with you too that the artist buys into the diva thing and their specialness. . . partly too that could be under the producer/label influence.

But bottom line is (as I see it) they could be so much better, these records. But they won't be.

Edited July 2, 2005 by jazzbo

[John L]

I mean, most of these women, Whitney especially, have it in them somewhere to make really stirring music that goes for more than the superficial thrills. I mean, Whitney's thing on "Exhale" was riveting precisely because she underplayed her surface and bulked up on her content. A GREAT record, that was, one of the best female pop/R&B vocal records of the last 20 years, imo. And it sold just dandy.

YES! I didn't think that I liked Whitney Houston at all until I heard "Exhale." That is such a beautiful and powerful track! I had no idea that she had that in her. If only she would do more of it! My God, to think of all that wasted potential.

[Soulstation1]

off subject

speakin' of whitney anyone see being bobby brown?

[jazzbo]

NO. . . I don't have cable so I can't see it. . . is it as bad as I think it might be and as some of the reviews say it is? Or is it fascinating?

[JSngry]

So I agree with you too that the artist buys into the diva thing and their specialness. . . partly too that could be under the producer/label influence. 

Well, I look at it like when you're 18 or so, even 22 or so, it's easy to be blinded by the glitz and stuff, and yeah, fall victim to industry pressures of all sorts. But geez, these ladies are all old enough to be grown up and to have figured some stuff out on their own by now. If they haven't, I figure it's just because they don't want to bad enough (for whatever reasons), and that I just can't feel any sympathy for. We all have to accept responsibility for our work eventually. Even Divas.

It's like I used to work with a local a female R&B singer who was, like 28 or 29, and was still making extra money by turning tricks (and she made lots of money, because she had a "high-dollar" body). The bass player in her band said to me one night, "Gee I feel sorry for *****, how she still thinks the only way she can be somebody is with her body". I told him - look, man, the woman's damn near 30 and has made the kind of money that a lot of women her age only dream about. If she wanted a different life for herself by now, she'd be working on getting one. Until she does, no "symapthy" from me. Nobody's keeping her where she is except herself.

That's pretty much how I feel about the whole thing - these women have achieved a stature in the industry such that if they really wanted to do something better, outsized fame and fortune be damned, they'd find a way to do it.

[JSngry]

I mean, most of these women, Whitney especially, have it in them somewhere to make really stirring music that goes for more than the superficial thrills. I mean, Whitney's thing on "Exhale" was riveting precisely because she underplayed her surface and bulked up on her content. A GREAT record, that was, one of the best female pop/R&B vocal records of the last 20 years, imo. And it sold just dandy.

YES! I didn't think that I liked Whitney Houston at all until I heard "Exhale." That is such a beautiful and powerful track! I had no idea that she had that in her. If only she would do more of it! My God, to think of all that wasted potential.

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Yeah, that's the song where it sounded logical that she was Cissy Houston's daughter and had grown up singing in church.

[Jazz Kat]

i've heard 2 songs and liked what i heard

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That's pretty funny all in itself.

[John L]

I mean, most of these women, Whitney especially, have it in them somewhere to make really stirring music that goes for more than the superficial thrills. I mean, Whitney's thing on "Exhale" was riveting precisely because she underplayed her surface and bulked up on her content. A GREAT record, that was, one of the best female pop/R&B vocal records of the last 20 years, imo. And it sold just dandy.

YES! I didn't think that I liked Whitney Houston at all until I heard "Exhale." That is such a beautiful and powerful track! I had no idea that she had that in her. If only she would do more of it! My God, to think of all that wasted potential.

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Yeah, that's the song where it sounded logical that she was Cissy Houston's daughter and had grown up singing in church.

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From that point of view, maybe Whitney came a little after her optimal time. If she had come up in the 50s or 60s, she probably would have devoted all of that talent to a different tune. Given how well Babyface captured her on Exhale, I hope that he gets a chance to producer her again.

I wouldn't say the same thing about Mariah. With her, I get the feeling that what you hear is what there is. She is in her proper time.

Edited July 3, 2005 by John L