Cecil question

[clifford_thornton]

Hey all,

I was perusing a Unit Core flyer and noticed advertisements for a "Volume Two" of Indent and a workshop orchestra double LP. Never seen these offered, though the flyer contained jacket mockups and all the pertinent details. Anyone know if these were issued?

Here's what I have:

Unit Core 30551 "Spring of Two Blue J's"

Unit Core 30555 "Indent"

Thanks!

CT

[Chuck Nessa]

Indent and Blue-J's were the only records issued. In spite of the numbers, Indent was recorded and issued first.

I think Blue-J's was first offered for sale at a CT event/festival at Columbia in 1974. That's where I got my copy. I later bought around 300 from him for the record store chain I worked for.

I know he hoped to issue a Smithsonian performance (same quartet) of a piece called Parade. By '77 this plan (and Unit Core) were history and I was going to issue Parade. As often happens, a "manager" fucked up the deal. A couple of years later Cecil asked what happened to our "deal" and when I explained he said "Always talk to ME". My error.

I know a couple of years before Unit Core existed, an ad was run in Coda offering a private issue of a solo performance called Cathedral. My friend Terry Martin sent off a check and no record (or records - it might have been a double) materialized.

[clifford_thornton]

Thanks for the info, Chuck. I didn't think they'd been issued but I suppose one never knows - it could be another Dogtown conundrum.

My Indent has labels reading 3055 5A and 3055 5B, though the jacket reads 30555. I guess it would stand to reason from the thick stock, heavy vinyl and underground look that this title was the label's 'seed.'

Interesting story - it certainly would've been nice to have a Cecil LP on Nessa (or would it have been Nessa-Core?)...

[Kalo]

I have Spring of Two Blue J's vinyl (Unit Core 30551) with a blank generic cover.

A prized (and oft listened to) possession.

What did the original cover look like? (Was there one?)

Are the Unit Core recordings (all two of 'em) available elsewhere as legitimate releases?

I'd love to see that Unit Core flyer, clifford_thornton.

  Quote

Chuck Nessa  Posted Today, 06:29 PM

I think Blue-J's was first offered for sale at a CT event/festival at Columbia in 1974. That's where I got my copy. I later bought around 300 from him for the record store chain I worked for.

I know he hoped to issue a Smithsonian performance (same quartet) of a piece called Parade. By '77 this plan (and Unit Core) were history and I was going to issue Parade. As often happens, a "manager" fucked up the deal. A couple of years later Cecil asked what happened to our "deal" and when I explained he said "Always talk to ME". My error.

My copy of Blue J's, and I assume all, has a 1973 copyright.

You bought 300 of them? How long did they take to sell? How big was the chain you worked for?

I agree that it would have been nice to have a Nessa Cecil Taylor, but why the hell didn't the Smithsonian issue a record by this major American artist?

[marcello]

  Kalo said:

I have Spring of Two Blue J's vinyl (Unit Core 30551) with a blank generic cover.

A prized (and oft listened to) possession.

What did the original cover look like? (Was there one?)

My copy of Blue J's, and I assume all, has a 1973 copyright.

Well, my copy has a polarizied, blue and white photo of CT on the front.

The rear has a long poem ( hand written ) that is "excerpted from WORD PLACEMENT copyright 1974, Cecil Taylor" and dedicated to Ben Webster.

Inside there are two flyers for Unit Core, including a ad for a "Holographs ( manuscripts in the artist's hand ), signed in limited edition. Both have poems on the back of them.

I'll fax them to you if you like.

Edited June 21, 2005 by marcello

[brownie]

  marcello said:

[inside there are two flyers for Unit Core, including a ad for a "Holographs ( manuscripts in the artist's hand ), signed in limited edition. Both have poems on the back of them.

One of the two flyers states this about the other planned releases:

  Quote

INDENT (Mysteries) was released in August 1973, the first production of Cecil Taylor's own label Unit Core;

INDENT II is the next three movements or 'layers' from the same concert recorded at Antioch College while Mr. Taylor was Artist-and-Composer-in-Residence.

The flyer also lists a double album 'Cecil Taylor Unit Chore Ensemble' of music 'recorded at Antioch College by twenty-five musicians who were participants in the Cecil Taylor Program in Yellow Springs, Ohio.'

Don't think either were ever released...

[Chuck Nessa]

  Kalo said:

My copy of Blue J's, and I assume all, has a 1973 copyright.

You bought 300 of them? How long did they take to sell? How big was the chain you worked for?

I agree that it would have been nice to have a Nessa Cecil Taylor, but why the hell didn't the Smithsonian issue a record by this major American artist?

←

In this case the copyright date reflects the recording date (Nov 4, 1973) not the issue date.

I worked for a chain called Discount Records. At that time we had around 30 stores. They sold out quickly and I was not able to get more copies.

[clifford_thornton]

  Kalo said:

I have Spring of Two Blue J's vinyl (Unit Core 30551) with a blank generic cover.

A prized (and oft listened to) possession.

What did the original cover look like? (Was there one?)

Are the Unit Core recordings (all two of 'em) available elsewhere as legitimate releases?

←

The polarized blue and white cover that Marcello refers to is the first edition, and it looks gorgeous even if it is on flimsy stock. I think that this was bootlegged on CD. As for Indent, it came out later as an Arista-Freedom LP, and I think I've seen some CD copies of questionable origin, none with the original cover art.

The titles Brownie just referred to are the ones I was thinking of... too bad they didn't come out.

Chuck, do you know how many were pressed of the Unit Core titles? Assuming 1000 each but that's just a guess.

[Chuck Nessa]

  clifford_thornton said:

The polarized blue and white cover that Marcello refers to is the first edition, and it looks gorgeous even if it is on flimsy stock. I think that this was bootlegged on CD. As for Indent, it came out later as an Arista-Freedom LP, and I think I've seen some CD copies of questionable origin, none with the original cover art.

Chuck, do you know how many were pressed of the Unit Core titles? Assuming 1000 each but that's just a guess.

←

Indent was issued as a Freedom cd with the Arista/Freedom cover. Blue-J's was booted on cd.

1000 is probably a good guess for quantities on the original lps.

[MartyJazz]

Not that I could add much to this discussion but I'd like it to be known that not only do I own an original Blue J's LP (and an Indent for that matter as well), but more significantly, I did attend the Blue J's concert that resulted in the recording. Nearly 32 years ago already, jeez!

[MartyJazz]

Here's the cover to the free program that attendees to the concert received:

[clifford_thornton]

Nice!

[Guest youmustbe]

And I head Cecil's Trio with Jimmy Lyons and Tony Williams follow Paul Bley's Barrage band in a loft in 1964...for a dollar! I left during Sun Ra's Septet with Archie Shepp's band still to come.

Who kew it was histroic at the time!

[Clunky]

  clifford_thornton said:

Hey all,

I was perusing a Unit Core flyer and noticed advertisements for a "Volume Two" of Indent and a workshop orchestra double LP. Never seen these offered, though the flyer contained jacket mockups and all the pertinent details. Anyone know if these were issued?

Here's what I have:

Unit Core 30551 "Spring of Two Blue J's"

Unit Core 30555 "Indent"

Thanks!

CT

Just received a copy of "Spring of Two Blue J's" LP. It's taken a long time to really yet into CT but recent acquisitions of "Dark unto themselves " and "Unit Structures " have re-galvanised my interest in him. Those two and this really great album have connected with me. Love it, never a dull moment , real sense of forward motion.

[erhodes]

  Chuck Nessa said:

I know a couple of years before Unit Core existed, an ad was run in Coda offering a private issue of a solo performance called Cathedral. My friend Terry Martin sent off a check and no record (or records - it might have been a double) materialized.

I have a copy of a flyer distributed at a March 7, 1965 concert by the Unit at Town Hall. At the bottom of the last page is an ad for "Cathedrale" (spelled with the final "e"). They were asking $5 for it and you could send the check to 60 Second Avenue, N.Y.C. 10003. "N.Y.C. residents must include $.20 N.Y.C. sales tax."

I made some inquiries about this on the CT Research list but no one had heard of it. A few folks said they would ask Cecil but no one has revived the thread.

[erhodes]

  youmustbe said:

And I head Cecil's Trio with Jimmy Lyons and Tony Williams follow Paul Bley's Barrage band in a loft in 1964...for a dollar! I left during Sun Ra's Septet with Archie Shepp's band still to come.

Who kew it was histroic at the time!

Everytime this is written about it has been described as one of Cecil's most exciting encounters with a drummer. Bill Dixon, for one, has commented on it. I had always gotten the idea that it was 1963 at the Take 3, though the Bley reference would tend to confirm 1964. I thought that Tony sat in for Sunny Murray, who was out of the band by 1964. An old Mike Hames discography (did I get this from you, Marty) says that Taylor "played very few gigs in 1964--partyly becuase he was attacked in May, 1964 and had his wrist broken."

Helluva bill...Marshall Allen would have been in that Bley band...

[Late]

Is this the original Indent cover?

[Late]

Here's the original Blue J's cover ...

My local library freakin' has this (not the LP; the CD). I need to check it out again.

[jostber]

The most recent edition of Indent was released on Black Lion in 2006: