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Guest akanalog

By Guest akanalog
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Guest akanalog

Guest akanalog

Posted
Posted

i recently purchaed marion brown's "why not?" on ESP. now i hear it is coming out with a bonus track or two.

the same thing happened with sun ra's "nothing is".

there are a number of other ESP titles i have been eyeing but should i hold off?

i mean they are all pretty darn short so adding some tracks would make them more reasonable and who knows what is in the ESP vaults.

do people think it is silly to be buying older issue ESPs right now. and when i saw old i mean the last batch which aren't old at all.

i mean it could be lame too like how they just stuck the frank wright stuff together and it seems like a good set but a good potion of it is interviews which i can do without or at least i have no urge to be paying for.

are the ESP reissues going to come hot and heavy? or is this an initial burst right now which will be followed by much inactivity?

clifford_thornton Veteran

clifford_thornton

Posted
Posted

As far as I know, it's going to be steady and sure reissuing of the back catalog, occasionally with unissued cuts and/or interviews. The Wright interviews are cool - c'mon, man, they're a piece of history! Besides, they aren't very expensive.

One thing is for sure, and that's that these are completely authorized reissues and the artists and recordings are being treated respectfully.

The Marion Brown set will contain both LPs plus some bonus material, as I understand it...

Rosco Newbie

Rosco

Posted
Posted

Just noticed this on the ESP website:

ESP has begun to convert its catalog to surround sound dvd, utilizing a proprietary system called SONATURE (www.sonature.com). The first titles to become available on dvd will be Albert Ayler (Spiritual Unity, Bells, Spirits Rejoice, and a previously unissued cd and dvd of the concert at the Maeght Foundation), and Sun Ra's Heliocentric Worlds vols 1 and 2, Nothing Is, and previously unissued material. Patty Waters and the Pearls Before Swine (both One Nation Underground and Balaklava) will also be converted to surround sound.

No other details of these or regular CD reissues that I could see... Don't know how regularly they update the site though.

AmirBagachelles Newbie

AmirBagachelles

Posted
Posted

ESP is some great sh!t no doubt, but comes with some real baggage in terms of unhappy and ripped off artists. So what is the basis for the assertion that these newest ESPs are "completely authorized"? (If so, I can't imagine the whole catalog is now legit by the artists.)

clifford_thornton Veteran

clifford_thornton

Posted
Posted

The artists, as I understand it, weren't ripped off - they were paid a small amount for recording, with small royalties against what sold, as with most independent labels. Apparently, some major distributors did rip off ESP by altering sales to 'lost shipments' and consequently some royalties were lost that way. There are some people like Sunny Murray who clamor on and on about getting ripped off because his lone session as a leader was a "gold record in Japan" (Japanese ESPs were, in fact, unlicensed) but of the artists I've spoken with about ESP, most felt that it was a solid opportunity to record that launched many a career.

I've spoken at length with Stollman, and both credit and pay are going where they are due.

Д.Д. Community Regular

Д.Д.

Posted
Posted (edited)

From the sound quality standpoint, I have recent Spiritual Unity ESP reissue and the one issued by Calibre (in red cardboard slipcase, now OOP) in early 00s. Both sound good, but I like Calibre version more.

Regarding Bernard "ripping off" poor creative musicians, this is pretty ridiculous. The guy got broke himself trying to push this music. Just because musicians didn't make any money on ESP releases does not necesserily mean that Bernard did. Is it such a revelation that nobody makes any money in creative music "business"? Following the "rip off" logics, Bernard can just as well demand pay off from musicians for losing money promoting their releases. The fact that he is now paying royalties to musicians is more of an act of good will than legal necessity (I am pretty sure there were no contracts signed, and the masters are in his full property).

Edited by Д.Д.
brownie Rookie

brownie

Posted
Posted

Glad to see Bernard Stollman get some recognition for what he did for the ESP musicians.

When the Ayler Brothers were in New York at the time of the 'Spirits Rejoice' session back in 1965, Stollman housed them in his (his parents' actually) apartment. Don't think many record producers did that back then!

  • 5 months later...
clifford_thornton Veteran

clifford_thornton

Posted
Posted

I'm pretty sure there was a Time cover analagous to the Friedlander photo on The Shape of Jazz to Come from around 1960. I have seen this referred to before talking to Stollman, though I wish I could corroborate it with an exact issue (unless it's not Time but another magazine). Guess that's my job as a researcher, but I have too much other shit to contend with this week...

Johnny E Newbie

Johnny E

Posted
Posted

  clifford_thornton said:

The artists, as I understand it, weren't ripped off - they were paid a small amount for recording, with small royalties against what sold, as with most independent labels. Apparently, some major distributors did rip off ESP by altering sales to 'lost shipments' and consequently some royalties were lost that way. There are some people like Sunny Murray who clamor on and on about getting ripped off because his lone session as a leader was a "gold record in Japan" (Japanese ESPs were, in fact, unlicensed) but of the artists I've spoken with about ESP, most felt that it was a solid opportunity to record that launched many a career.

I've spoken at length with Stollman, and both credit and pay are going where they are due.

Sunny Murray has a number of records out as leader (3 on BYG alone). Also, I'm wondering about the money Stollman made by licensing the ESP stuff out. Some of the Japanese reissues were not legitimate, but I'm almost sure the German ones (ZYX) were. When I've talked to James Zitro, Sonny Simmons and Bert Wilson they've all said they have never seen one cent in reissue revenue. Of course, I have yet to read that interview with Stollman that Д.Д. posted, so if these issues got addressed in there, please excuse me.

Guest Chaney

Guest Chaney

Posted
Posted

TIME, wonderful magazine that it is ( :bad: ) has a neat feture on their website that allows you perform a cover search.

HERE

Chuck Nessa Veteran

Chuck Nessa

Posted
Posted

No time to write the details but y'all need to understand the economics of this music.

Someone should prompt me in the future.

I can only say in one example, I paid the artist $3500, spent another $4000 to issue the recording, sold 900 at $3.50 (lps) for a return of $3150 - with no consideration for promos (300), the mailing costs or my time. Then I spent another $4000 to get a cd out there in the "new marketplace", sold another few hundred and I'm the bad guy.

Not attempting a defense of ESP but, in some instances, no good deed goes unpunished. :mellow:

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