The Jazz Composer's Orchestra / Michael Mantler

[Guy Berger]

lineup:

    Soloists

    Don Cherry  (cornet)

    Gato Barbieri (tenor saxophone)

    Larry Coryell  (guitar)

    Roswell Rudd  (trombone)

    Pharoah Sanders  (tenor saxophone)

    Cecil Taylor  (piano)

    Orchestra conducted by Michael Mantler

    7 saxophones

        (Steve Lacy, Jimmy Lyons, Frank

        Wess, Lew Tabackin, Charles Davis,

        and others)

    7 brass

        (Randy Brecker, Bob Northern,

        Julius Watkins, Jimmy Knepper,          Howard Johnson, and others)

    piano

        (Carla Bley)

    5 basses

        (Steve Swallow, Charlie Haden,

        Reggie Workman, Eddie Gomez,

        Ron Carter, and others)

    drums

        (Andrew Cyrille, Beaver Harris)

    recorded January, May, June 1968

    New York

I haven't heard this, but the lineup is extremely intriguing. Worth picking up? What does the orchestra sound like?

Edited June 18, 2005 by Guy Berger

[Michael Fitzgerald]

It's amazing. A masterpiece. Listen to this (along with Sun Ra) to hear how to do free jazz/large ensemble composition.

"Preview" - play it LOUD!

Mike

[JSngry]

What Mike said, exactly.

[gnhrtg]

Well I'll say what you were expecting, perhaps, but still: Most of it, the orchestral back/fore-ground, sounds dense but not forbidding and indeed enthralling, and the solos by turns aggressive, piercing, and monumentally structural. This comes highly recommended, I'd say pretty much each of the different "communications" alone would've been worth the price of admission.

Tangentially related, I also like the pictures (and other content of the booklet).

Edited June 18, 2005 by gnhrtg

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, a landmark. The Coryell piece is wigged, too.

There's another previous LP called Communications (originally on Dutch Fontana, put to CD by ECM) that features a lengthy Mantler piece with a great tenor soloist by the name of Bob Carducci.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I think the ECM CD "Communications" is the JCOA album first mentioned. I don't believe the earlier Fontana LP was issued on CD by ECM, only on Japanese Fontana (PHCE-1005).

Mike

[clifford_thornton]

I could swear I saw it advertised at one point while Googling Carducci, but I could be wrong. In any event... great record.

[BFrank]

How does this compare with "Escalator Over the Hill"?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I would think that if you like one, you'll like the other. Some of the musical language is the same. EOTH is much more structured and is a long-form composition, while this album is a collection of more unrelated pieces.

Mike

[brownie]

Jazz Composer's Information Page

Whatever happened to Bob Carducci? Outstanding solo indeed on that Fontana LP!

[Brandon Burke]

Great record, though I never actually heard it until about two years ago. Consequently, I never really thought much about Larry Coryell until about two years ago. Love the controlled feedback here.

Thanks for the (accidental) suggestion. I'm going to put it on right now...

[bertrand]

Tangentially related to this thread, any idea how I might find a copy of Moncur's Echoes Of Prayer? I passed up a reasonably priced copy a few years ago in Paris, and I've been kicking myself ever since. Any hope that it will show up on CD, my preferred medium?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

[clifford_thornton]

[url=http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mendahl/jco.html]Whatever happened to Bob Carducci? Outstanding solo indeed on that Fontana LP!

←

Hell, I was wondering where he came from, too... not only where he went!

I sure wish somebody would get involved and reissue some of the other JCOA LPs, like the Moncur and the uh, Thornton, but I suppose the artists probably have the tapes. It's kind of surprising that nothing like that has happened, though.

[Matthew]

I'm becoming interested in Michael Mantler, who took part in this cd -- any suggestions where I should start with Mantler, what are the cds I should get that involve him.

[clifford_thornton]

Though not in print on CD, Jazz Realities (Fontana) is excellent!

Featuring Mantler, Carla Bley, Lacy, Kent Carter and Aldo Romano in a strong 1966 quintet formation, it's very high on my list of '60s jazz LPs.

There was a Japanese CD of this session released in the late '80s/early '90s, though ironically the vinyl is probably more common.

[fkimbrough]

Jazz Realities has been released on CD, by Fontana - I got a copy (Japanese import) at Tower a few years ago.

One of the tunes, Oni Puladi, by Carla Bley, is Ida Lupino played backwards........

just realized I missed part of post #15 - sorry about that Clifford.........

Edited January 29, 2007 by fkimbrough

[clifford_thornton]

One of the tunes, Oni Puladi, by Carla Bley, is Ida Lupino played backwards........

For whatever reason, I didn't grasp that before. Gonna play 'em both in a minute!

Thanks, Frank!

[Lazaro Vega]

Tangentially related to this thread, any idea how I might find a copy of Moncur's Echoes Of Prayer? I passed up a reasonably priced copy a few years ago in Paris, and I've been kicking myself ever since. Any hope that it will show up on CD, my preferred medium?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

I have that on lp....

[Guest youmustbe]

Yeah, the Pharaoh rev up is great...and the Cecil is terrific, what with Cyrille's drumming....I rememeber hearing something like this live, can't remember where. Mantler was always around that scene at the time.

[erhodes]

Yeah, the Pharaoh rev up is great...and the Cecil is terrific, what with Cyrille's drumming....I rememeber hearing something like this live, can't remember where. Mantler was always around that scene at the time.

It was at the Electric Circus. Cecil did his number straight off the record but Pharoah did something other than "Preview". I remember he was playing a contrabass clarinet rather than a tenor...I think it was a silver colored instrument. And Gato Barbieri was in the section, just like on the record. And everyone was whispering about...I think his name was Ron McClure...the guy who played in Lloyd's band with Jarrett and DeJohnette. He was flying all over the bass but nobody could hear what he was playing. The bass players were placed all around the performance space. Actually, you couldn't hear any of them too well. But Cecil and Cyrille tore it up.

[Guest youmustbe]

Yeah! The Electric Circus! ( I remember going there in 65, Archie Shepp doing a Communist Party Benefit. And The Dom was downstairs, into the erly 70's if I remember.)

Andrew Cyrille told me that Mantler's orchestrations behind Cecil were taken from Cecil's solos.

O fcourse the Electric Circus became somethign else, I think Sly might have performed there...light shows and all that....getting fuzzy after all these years.

[ep1str0phy]

Andrew Cyrille told me that Mantler's orchestrations behind Cecil were taken from Cecil's solos.

Man, I'd love to see those charts.

[clifford_thornton]

IIRC, some of the score is printed in the booklet that came with the LP.

[alocispepraluger102]

a worthy mantler effort on the watt series is the wonderfully depressing 'no answer', the poetry of samuel beckett, with jack bruce, i think, doing the vocals.

[Late]

If anyone knows where a CD copy of this album can be purchased (*), or is selling one, please PM! I'm aching to hear this record.

* If buying it directly from ECM in Munich for (approximately) $30 is the only route — well, I guess that's what I'll have to do. When it was available domestically (U.S.), it was around $13.

Edited February 10, 2007 by Late