Herbie Hancock Headhunter's 2005

[md655321]

I got a chance to see these guys at the Bonnaroo music festival.

The lineup was steller, with Kenny Garrett, Roy Hargrove, Marcus Miller, Terri Lynne Carrington, and a couple others including (ugh) John Mayer.

They did Chameleon and Watermelon Man and other Herbie funk classics. Herbie was fantastic as usual and Kenny Garrett was phenomenal. He got people going as much as anyone at the entire festival (which is saying alot for a festival aimed at hippie jam band fans of Dave Matthews and Trey Anastasio.)

John Mayer was terrible. He can play blues, but he should NEVER be allowed anywhere near where jazz might be played. To top it off he sang some lite-pop tune that was terrible.

Roy was underwhelming, but decent.

Check these guys out if you get the chance, definitely alot of great moments.

[CJ Shearn]

was Herbie playing his digital versions of the Rhodes and Clavinet? they actually sound pretty good, that virtual instrument stuff he used on the F2F tour. How was Lionel Loueke on guitar? he really impressed me on Blanchard's new record.

[Sundog]

Thanks for posting. I was wondering who played with Herbie and how it went over. I heard Jerry Douglas sat in with the Allman Brothers any chance you caught that?

[GregK]

Thanks for posting.  I was wondering who played with Herbie and how it went over.  I heard Jerry Douglas sat in with the Allman Brothers any chance you caught that?

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I was going to ask the same thing, kind of: did you catch the Allman Brothers too?

[md655321]

Unfortunately, I had to leave Allman Bros early to go see...Herbie Hancock. So I didnt see or hear Jerry Douglas. Allman seemed a bit lackluster from what I remember, but I also might be just remembering the rain coming down at the time upsetting me.

Im prett sure Herbie just had a keyboard and a grand piano. The stage was far away with no video screen, so I didnt see much, The keyboard sounded quite nice though.

Loueke was great, and Herbie introduced him on many occasions. Obviosuly MUCH better than John Mayer.

Herbie also sat in with Widespread Panic and he played during the "SuperJam" with atleast ?uestlove of the Roots. The three songs he did with WSP were the only interesting moments from their sets. I only heard a very small bit of the Superjam, but it seemed quite good. Im very interested to hear the tape if I can get my hands on it. Bonnaroo has a universal taping policy that allows large set-ups and no taping restricitons, so we should get some nice stuff.

[GregN]

Unfortunately, I had to leave Allman Bros early to go see...Herbie Hancock.  So I didnt see or hear Jerry Douglas.  Allman seemed a bit lackluster from what I remember, but I also might be just remembering the rain coming down at the time upsetting me.

Im prett sure Herbie just had a keyboard and a grand piano.  The stage was far away with no video screen, so I didnt see much,  The keyboard sounded quite nice though.

Loueke was great, and Herbie introduced him on many occasions.  Obviosuly MUCH better than John Mayer.

Herbie also sat in with Widespread Panic and he played during the "SuperJam" with atleast ?uestlove of the Roots.  The three songs he did with WSP were the only interesting moments from their sets.  I only heard a very small bit of the Superjam, but it seemed quite good.  Im very interested to hear the tape if I can get my hands on it.  Bonnaroo has a universal taping policy that allows large set-ups and no taping restricitons, so we should get some nice stuff.

←

Are you generally not a fan of John Mayer? The reason I am asking this is, well,

the live footage I have seen of him has been actually quite impressive. He is a very talented songwriter, singer, and musician by most accounts. But, I've met some folks who just can't stand his voice. Was he trying to play jazz? Guess I am not sure of your criticism here.

Maybe he had an off day.

g

[md655321]

In most circles of the current music "in-crowd" he is considered about as legit as American Idol. I mostly agree with this. I think his lyrics and his songwriting is mostly atrocious, and his ego puts Keith Jarrett to shame. He seems to try way to hard to be cool and to be liked by girls, which he has achieved for the fans of MTV I suppose. Additionally, his voice sounds like a caricature of some guy who is sensitive, and it sounds ocmpletely forced.

His guitar playing on the other hand is quite good. Especially as a blues player, he can definitely hang much better than one would suspect. That being said, he has no business being anywhere where jazz is being played, even if its primarily funk-jazz. All he did was play rehashed SRV licks all night, and he never had anything interesting going on. It was an off night for blues playing, and an utterly embarrasing night for jazz playing. Especially in the unbelivable company he was in.

[CJ Shearn]

was Loueke a lead player and Mayer primarily backup ala Wah Wah Watson or Blackbird McKnight? do you remember the setlist? did they do "Actual Proof"?

[md655321]

Mayer didnt play alot of lead, I suspect there was a reason for that though. Loueke played more lead if I recall correctly. The only thing that really burned in my mind was Garrett far surpassing my usual high expectations, and Herbie sounding like good ol' Herbie.

I dont know the song Actual Proof. I only recognized Watermelon Man which opened the show and Chameleon, which closed the show. They did one more from the original Head Hunters album, I believe Vein Melter. They did a new song which Mayer sang, and a few others that sounded almost like 80s stuff.

Unfortunatley, it was raining, I was far away, and exhausted so my memory isnt entirely top notch.

[CJ Shearn]

"Actual Proof" is the second tune off "Thrust", even better is the live version on the import, "Flood".

[GregN]

In most circles of the current music "in-crowd" he is considered about as legit as American Idol.  I mostly agree with this.  I think his lyrics and his songwriting is mostly atrocious, and his ego puts Keith Jarrett to shame.  He seems to try way to hard to be cool and to be liked by girls, which he has achieved for the fans of MTV I suppose.  Additionally, his voice sounds like a caricature of some guy who is sensitive, and it sounds ocmpletely forced.

His guitar playing on the other hand is quite good.  Especially as a blues player, he can definitely hang much better than one would suspect.  That being said, he has no business being anywhere where jazz is being played, even if its primarily funk-jazz.  All he did was play rehashed SRV licks all night, and he never had anything interesting going on.  It was an off night for blues playing, and an utterly embarrasing night for jazz playing.  Especially in the unbelivable company he was in.

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I was not a fan of Mayer's for a long time. My wife kept prodding me to listen closely to his Heavier Things. I got to tell ya, he won me over with his craftsmanship. Not sure what you mean about "in-crowd", but I will tell you he is heads above any American Idol. I will stake my own musical reputation on that one. In fact, I've heard comparisons drawn to James Taylor. Moreover, I don't believe this was a jazz fest in general. Was it?

I might concede the lineup was awkward though.

"He seems to try way to hard to be cool and to be liked by girls"

Well, you say that like it's a bad thing. Just kiddin'. Seriously, I can agree with you that sometimes the way an act gets marketed can be annoying. I am not sure how much of this is him, and how much of it is grooming. I have heard earlier radio interviews (when living in Charlottesville) of a very modest and actually insecure artist named John Mayer. Someone probably told him not to do that, and the opposite image was cultivated, but who knows. He is a very talented young man with a lot of people probably filling his head with all sorts of stuff.

As far as his songwriting goes:

Well, Daughters moved me when I listened closely, with headphones, and followed the lyrics. On the Heavier Things CD I heard a ton of very creative guitar parts and voicings, melodic intervals, word sounds, and harmonies. His vocal quality suffers a lot on radio with the over-compression so typical of radio stations.

Again, with high quality headphones and my CD player, I heard something more than before.

I guess, what I am trying to say is, I kind of felt the way you do now, until someone prodded me toward a more deliberate consideration. I would never go so far as to try to tell someone what they ought to like. However, I am glad someone talked me in to a reconsideration.

Greg

P.S. I also like the group XTC. There, I said it! whew!!

[md655321]

How much modern music do you listen too? By the "in-crowd" I simply mean those that are steeped in today's music, whic I dont think is the case for most of the people on this board. Daughters, to me, is one of the worst lyrics ever written and damn near the worst song on the radio in the last year. For those who havent heard it, hear is the chorus:

"Fathers be good to your daughters

Because they learn to love like you do

Girls become lovers

who turn into mothers

so mothers be good to your daughters too"

Interesting considering all he wants to do is engage in casual sex with as many daighters as possible. (Not that I cant relate)

But to each his own, Im just trying to say where I'm coming from and what his music means to most people who listen to that style. If you like him at all I strongly suggest you check out people like Jack Johnson, Sufjan Stevens, Iron and Wine, Andrew Bird, and a myriad of others in a similar genre that simply blow him away. I don't even think I'm overstating when I say the general dislike of him in the "modern singer-songwriter" community is not unlike how we think of Kenny G.

As for the fest as a whole, Herbie was the only jazz there, but a vast majority of the music relied heavily on improvisation. Bands like Dave Matthews, Widespread Panic, and Trey Anastasio were headlining, with all three bands containing some excellent musicians. Again, Mayer can play blues well. But he was simply out of his league. It was like Richard Nixon sitting in with Duke ellington.

Hopefully a tape will be available, Im as eager to hear it as some of you seem to be.

CJ, Ive been looking to get Flood forever but havent been able to find it at a store. I definitely need to listen to more electric Herbie. Im just waiting for Mwandishi 2005!

[Jim Alfredson]

I think Daughters is a pretty good tune and what's so bad about that lyric? Of all the horrible lyrics foisted upon the world by pop musicians, that's hardly the worst. Not even slightly the worst.

I wouldn't want him playing on a Herbie record, though.

[Kari S]

I wouldn't want [Mayer] playing on a Herbie record, though.

←

Yeah, well: "Hancock, the ten-time Grammy Award winner, is also slated to release a collaborations album, Possibilities, on Aug. 20, featuring appearances from a slew of well-known musicians, among them—Mayer, Carlos Santana, Sting, Paul Simon, Trey Anastasio, Annie Lenox and Damien Rice"

(And by the way, even Mayer himself wasn't happy with "Daughters" being a single because he thought it was subpar in some way...)

[GregN]

I wouldn't want [Mayer] playing on a Herbie record, though.

←

Yeah, well: "Hancock, the ten-time Grammy Award winner, is also slated to release a collaborations album, Possibilities, on Aug. 20, featuring appearances from a slew of well-known musicians, among them—Mayer, Carlos Santana, Sting, Paul Simon, Trey Anastasio, Annie Lenox and Damien Rice"

(And by the way, even Mayer himself wasn't happy with "Daughters" being a single because he thought it was subpar in some way...)

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"(And by the way, even Mayer himself wasn't happy with "Daughters" being a single because he thought it was subpar in some way...)"

That doesn't surprise me. Of course, that is a relative term isn't it?

First off, the "subpar" comment, was likely in the context of it winning a music award. I think it was a Grammy. It is a very fine song. Not a great song. If he

thinks some of his others are better or even more worthy of an award, well then, yes, daughters would appear to him as subpar. This really negates not a thing about my previous comments, if that were you intention.

Downplaying an award in just such a way is actually quite an industry cliche'.

Regarding Mayer's appearance on a Herbie Record. Herbie likely needs the money. Just kiddin'. But seriously, Herbie has been a great cross-over artist before. Something most jazz musicians lack. I have to imagine that he must respect most if not all of the lineup as he is pretty well set and a very serious musician/artist. Regardless,

The whole lineup suggests some pretty good record sales. I wont begrudge Herbie a little extra bread. The man deserves it. I saw Herbie in Ann Arbor about ten years ago and to this day it remains my musical event.

I saw part of a John Mayer concert on DVD the other day, and was quite impressed. Maybe Herbie saw the same thing.

g

[GregN]

How much modern music do you listen too?  By the "in-crowd" I simply mean those that are steeped in today's music, whic I dont think is the case for most of the people on this board.  Daughters, to me, is one of the worst lyrics ever written and damn near the worst song on the radio in the last year. For those who havent heard it, hear is the chorus:

"Fathers be good to your daughters

Because they learn to love like you do

Girls become lovers

who turn into mothers

so mothers be good to your daughters too"

Interesting considering all he wants to do is engage in casual sex with as many daighters as possible. (Not that I cant relate)

But to each his own, Im just trying to say where I'm coming from and what his music means to most people who listen to that style.  If you like him at all I strongly suggest you check out people like Jack Johnson, Sufjan Stevens, Iron and Wine, Andrew Bird, and a myriad of others in a similar genre that simply blow him away.  I don't even think I'm overstating when I say the general dislike of him in the "modern singer-songwriter" community is not unlike how we think of Kenny G.

As for the fest as a whole, Herbie was the only jazz there, but a vast majority of the music relied heavily on improvisation.  Bands like Dave Matthews, Widespread Panic, and Trey Anastasio were headlining, with all three bands containing some excellent musicians.  Again, Mayer can play blues well.  But he was simply out of his league.  It was like Richard Nixon sitting in with Duke ellington.

Hopefully a tape will be available, Im as eager to hear it as some of you seem to be.

CJ, Ive been looking to get Flood forever but havent been able to find it at a store.  I definitely need to listen to more electric Herbie.  Im just waiting for Mwandishi 2005!

←

Daughters is a sticky sweet song about loving one's kids. Much better than most of the crap on the radio today. Also, it has some creative use of words, melody, vocal technique, and sounds that your boy Jack Johnson isn't even close to coppin'.

You almost had me considering your point of view until you mentioned Jack Johnson. From what I've heard, the guy can hardly sing, play, or wear shoes. And the few tunes of his I have heard have been laughable on all grounds. However, point me to a few of your favorites and I will give them a reconsideration. (just don't make it Bubble Toes) I actually kind of like being proven wrong about artists. Sometimes we let our own prejudices, musical bigotry and myopia skew our perception of musical happenings. I want to be fair.

g

[md655321]

Jack Johnson is admittetedly subpar as a musician, but he is certainly honest.

Damien Rice is another phenomenal songwriter. Id say check out the album "o"

[Guy Berger]

somebody just upped an Ohio show by this group from a few weeks ago onto DaD.

Guy

[GregN]

Jack Johnson is admittetedly subpar as a musician, but he is certainly honest.

Damien Rice is another phenomenal songwriter.  Id say check out the album "o"

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I will check out Damien. Even though I am over 40, I do want to keep my mind open to new stuff. Many thanks for the suggestion.

Greg

[Kreilly]

[Joe G]

You were thinking the music business was a meritocracy?

[randissimo]

You were thinking the music business was a meritocracy?

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John Mayer must be doing something right, Scofield digs him... I saw him with John Scofield's band on Jay Leno the other night...

Though he obviously has his shit together as a blues player, I'm not that particularly knocked out by Mayer, probably because I come from that magical era of the 60's & 70's where historically, the greatest music innovations in history happened and are yet to be rivaled in my opinion..

Edited June 17, 2005 by randissimo

[Kreilly]

You were thinking the music business was a meritocracy?

←

I know, but from the praise lavished upon this guy from some people, you'd think he had something really special to offer. I saw Amos Lee open for Dylan in April. I thought he was pretty good, far better than Mayer in nearly every respect. However, I couldn't help but see Amos Lee as Blue Note's attempt to produce a male Norah Jones. I saw Norah Jones play in Makur before her Blue Note release was out. I thought she was attractive and talented but again nothing to separate her from the plethora of talented singer songwriters gigging around NYC. In fact, her songwriting chops are not the strongest. It didn't hurt that Ravi Shankar was her father. In the music business, mediocrity often rises to the top.

Kevin

[Aggie87]

Herbie also sat in with Widespread Panic and he played during the "SuperJam" with atleast ?uestlove of the Roots.  The three songs he did with WSP were the only interesting moments from their sets.  I only heard a very small bit of the Superjam, but it seemed quite good.  Im very interested to hear the tape if I can get my hands on it.  Bonnaroo has a universal taping policy that allows large set-ups and no taping restricitons, so we should get some nice stuff.

←

The Widespread Panic set from Bonnaroo is now available from livewidespreadpanic.com. Herbie is listed as being on 4 tunes. Setlist:

Space Wrangler (9:07)

Tall Boy (4:56)

Old Neighborhood (6:49)

Time Zone (6:51)

Diner (15:47)

City Of Dreams (8:22)

I Ain't Superstitious (7:49)

Wang Dang Doodle (8:05)

Little Red Rooster (9:05)

You Should Be Glad (10:34)

Arleen (13:16)

Life During Wartime (9:48)

Bonnaroo Jam (11:33)

Drums (8:33)

Bowlegged Woman (10:32)

Cows Come Home (10:08)

Jack (6:45)

Rebirtha (10:57)

Imitation Leather Shoes (4:55)

Fixin' To Die (11:33)

Junior (7:11)

Fishwater (9:25)

Red Hot Mama (7:40)

Guests:

* Bob Weir on vocals and guitar for I Ain't Superstitious through Little Red Rooser

* Herbie Hancock on keys (with JoJo) for You Should Be Glad through Bonnaroo Jam

* Cody Dickinson on washboard and Derrick Freeman on percussion during Drums

* Col. Bruce Hampton on vocals, Luther Dickinson on guitar, Robert Randolph on pedal steel for Fixin' To Die

* Luther Dickinson on guitar, Robert Randolph on pedal steel for Junior through Red Hot Mama

Edited June 18, 2005 by Aggie87

[CJ Shearn]

listening to a show the HH did June 9th, Garrett is burning on "Frankenstein" now.