connoisseur series500 Posted June 28, 2003 Author Report Posted June 28, 2003 Montana and Unitas are one and two in terms of votes at this stage, and that's probably exactly as it should be. I acknowledge some of Mnytime's excellent points and his general acumen in this area. To me, Marino was just a throwing machine. Definitely a great quarterback. I guess I prefer Montana's and Unitas intangibles. The Quarterback brain if you will. Favre's got it too. Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 (edited) Montana and Unitas are one and two in terms of votes at this stage, and that's probably exactly as it should be. I acknowledge some of Mnytime's excellent points and his general acumen in this area. To me, Marino was just a throwing machine. Definitely a great quarterback. I guess I prefer Montana's and Unitas intangibles. The Quarterback brain if you will. Favre's got it too. I would be curious to know how you figure that Montana has a QB brain while Marino didn't? Especially when you take into account that the 49ers scripted their first 20-25 plays. Only Unitas called his own plays of those 3 you mention. Though Marino didn't call all the plays he did audible a great deal of the time. Something that Montana wasn't really expected to do since the plays were scripted. The West Coast offense is all based on timing. The way to stop it is to throw off the timing between the QB and the WR. The less talent around the QB the easier it is to throw off the timing. Another thing, if Montana had this QB intelligence you claim Marino didn't have he would have been the one learning the KC offense. Instead it was the entire team and coaches having to learn a completely new offense so Montana could fit in. Edited June 28, 2003 by Mnytime Quote
chris olivarez Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 I voted for Joe Montana.From Notre Dame on any team that Joe qb'd even if they were way behind in a game were never out of it.That one game where Cinncinati committed a penalty and Joe used the opportunity to throw a game winning td to Jerry Rice said it all.Joe is my hero. Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 (edited) I voted for Joe Montana.From Notre Dame on any team that Joe qb'd even if they were way behind in a game were never out of it.That one game where Cinncinati committed a penalty and Joe used the opportunity to throw a game winning td to Jerry Rice said it all.Joe is my hero. That's because Montana has never had to play with a bad team or with bad players. Another thing the reason they won that second Super Bowl against the Bengals can be traced to one play. And it did not involve Montana. It was when Ronnie Lott put a serious hit on Icky Woods. The 49ers were losing the game and could not stop the Bengals offense until that play. Up until that play no one had ever really put a hit on Woods during the season. Once Lott hit Woods he didn't run the same way again and that allowed the defense to key on the passing game. If it weren’t for the defense finally stopping the Bengals Montana would not have been able to lead any comeback. Just like in all comebacks. Without a defense that is able to stop the other team you are not going to comeback from anything. Your only other option is to do what the Dolphins had to do and that is put up a lot of points and hope the other team has more turnovers. By the way, NFL films has a whole 5-10 min section of one of their films on the Lott/Woods play. But as I said already if Montana's team had the better defense in the Playoffs they won when they didn't they lost. By the way, it was Taylor that caught the winning TD not Rice. Edited June 28, 2003 by Mnytime Quote
chris olivarez Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 FYI the Bengals-49er's game I was referring to was one that took place during the regular season. Quote
J Larsen Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 (edited) I will not listen to reason! Joe Montana was the man! (Of course, so were Roger Craig, Jerry Rice, Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Dwight Clark, Tom Rathman, John Taylor, Bill Romanowski etc. etc., and don't go saying "See, that's what I'm talking about", Mnytime! ) Edited June 28, 2003 by J Larsen Quote
jacknife Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 I had to vote for Bret Favre, just cause I'm a huge Packer Fan!! and the Bears still suck!!! Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 FYI the Bengals-49er's game I was referring to was one that took place during the regular season. Ok, I knew it was Taylor that caught the TD in the Super Bowl not Rice. I don't remember any regular season game between them well enough to discuss it. Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 I will not listen to reason! Joe Montana was the man! (Of course, so were Roger Craig, Jerry Rice, Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, Dwight Clark, etc. etc. and don't go saying "See, that's what I'm talking about", Mnytime! ) Spoken like a true 49er fan that still lives in the area. Though you have left off a good many others on that list. I will admit I hated the 49ers. I was a Raiders and Cowboys fan myself. I still can't stand to watch the Dwight Clark "Catch" replays. And Montana was just throwing the ball away!! Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 And another thing. See, that's what I am talking about, Willis! I mean Larsen. Quote
chris olivarez Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 The Bengals were a tough adversary for Joe and the niners in those two super bowls unlike the time when they diassembled Elway and the Broncos. I have to give John Elway his props though he hung in there long enough to have a great career and win two super bowl rings.BTW Elway should've made this poll. Quote
Saint Vitus Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 FYI the Bengals-49er's game I was referring to was one that took place during the regular season. Ok, I knew it was Taylor that caught the TD in the Super Bowl not Rice. I don't remember any regular season game between them well enough to discuss it. It was the season before (87-88) and the reason Montana got another chance was because Sam Wyche, leading by six, went for it on fourth down at his 30-yard line instead of punting with six seconds left ... Wyche called a running play, the run was stuffed for a loss of five, and the Niners had two seconds. Montana hit Rice and the extra point made the score Niners 27, Bengals 26. Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 (edited) The Bengals were a tough adversary for Joe and the niners in those two super bowls unlike the time when they diassembled Elway and the Broncos. I have to give John Elway his props though he hung in there long enough to have a great career and win two super bowl rings.BTW Elway should've made this poll. Don't you mean stuck around long enough to allow Terrel Davis to win him 2 Super Bowls. They won the Super Bowls in spite of Elway. Who had one of his usual horrible Super Bowl performances in the first win. Without Davis, Elway is 0-5 in Super Bowls. He played like crap in 4 of the 5 Super Bowls he played in. There is a very good reason Bradshaw called him a loser after the 49ers dismantled him. Edited June 28, 2003 by Mnytime Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 (edited) FYI the Bengals-49er's game I was referring to was one that took place during the regular season. Ok, I knew it was Taylor that caught the TD in the Super Bowl not Rice. I don't remember any regular season game between them well enough to discuss it. It was the season before (87-88) and the reason Montana got another chance was because Sam Wyche, leading by six, went for it on fourth down at his 30-yard line instead of punting with six seconds left ... Wyche called a running play, the run was stuffed for a loss of five, and the Niners had two seconds. Montana hit Rice and the extra point made the score Niners 27, Bengals 26. Was that the one where he throws a hail mary type pass to Rice from about midfield? If that is the one we are talking about that was all Rice. All those Hail Mary passes are the WR's and not the QB's. I don't care which QB is throwing it. Edited June 28, 2003 by Mnytime Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted June 28, 2003 Author Report Posted June 28, 2003 I would be curious to know how you figure that Montana has a QB brain while Marino didn't? Especially when you take into account that the 49ers scripted their first 20-25 plays. Only Unitas called his own plays of those 3 you mention. Though Marino didn't call all the plays he did audible a great deal of the time. Something that Montana wasn't really expected to do since the plays were scripted. The West Coast offense is all based on timing. The way to stop it is to throw off the timing between the QB and the WR. The less talent around the QB the easier it is to throw off the timing. Another thing, if Montana had this QB intelligence you claim Marino didn't have he would have been the one learning the KC offense. Instead it was the entire team and coaches having to learn a completely new offense so Montana could fit in. Don't mean to imply that Marino did not have the QB brain, but what I mean is the ability to improvise once the play breaks down and still keep your cool and make the best of the busted situation. Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted June 28, 2003 Author Report Posted June 28, 2003 The Bengals were a tough adversary for Joe and the niners in those two super bowls unlike the time when they diassembled Elway and the Broncos. I have to give John Elway his props though he hung in there long enough to have a great career and win two super bowl rings.BTW Elway should've made this poll. He did, Chris. Take a look Quote
connoisseur series500 Posted June 28, 2003 Author Report Posted June 28, 2003 Don't you mean stuck around long enough to allow Terrel Davis to win him 2 Super Bowls. They won the Super Bowls in spite of Elway. Who had one of his usual horrible Super Bow performances in the first win. Without Davis, Elway is 0-5 in Super Bowls. He played like crap in 4 of the 5 Super Bowls he played in. There is a very good reason Bradshaw called him a loser after the 49ers dismantled him. I incline towards Mnytime on this one. I've always found John Elway, although athletically gifted and a great competitor to be not quite as great as others on the list. He's a gambler like Favre but doesn't have Favre's genius for the game. Quote
chris olivarez Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 The Bengals were a tough adversary for Joe and the niners in those two super bowls unlike the time when they diassembled Elway and the Broncos. I have to give John Elway his props though he hung in there long enough to have a great career and win two super bowl rings.BTW Elway should've made this poll. Don't you mean stuck around long enough to allow Terrel Davis to win him 2 Super Bowls. They won the Super Bowls in spite of Elway. Who had one of his usual horrible Super Bow performances in the first win. Without Davis, Elway is 0-5 in Super Bowls. He played like crap in 4 of the 5 Super Bowls he played in. There is a very good reason Bradshaw called him a loser after the 49ers dismantled him. You really are a Raider fan.I am too but it's not anything that you proclaim loudly in Colorado. I prefer the Raiders over the Broncos and I always enjoy it when the Raiders clean their clock.That being said we'll just have to disagree about Elway.He did have good support but the team also responded to his leadership.They did play a lot of exciting games and pulled out a lot of close ones and I did'nt always enjoy seeing that but I'll give the man his due.I know this is going to piss you off but like it or not Elway is going into the hall of fame. As a fan of Arizona State though I'm pleased to say that Elway was 0-4 in his career against the Sun Devils. Quote
chris olivarez Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 The Bengals were a tough adversary for Joe and the niners in those two super bowls unlike the time when they diassembled Elway and the Broncos. I have to give John Elway his props though he hung in there long enough to have a great career and win two super bowl rings.BTW Elway should've made this poll. He did, Chris. Take a look You're right.My bad. Quote
Jazzmoose Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 (edited) Csonka is in the HOF but he was playing during the Bob Griese era way before Marino. Duh...you're right; must have been a brain fart. You know the brain cells are getting scrambled when you confuse Griese with Marino! How about Earl Morrell as "greatest all time back up on the spot" quarterback? Edited June 28, 2003 by Jazzmoose Quote
chris olivarez Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 FYI the Bengals-49er's game I was referring to was one that took place during the regular season. Ok, I knew it was Taylor that caught the TD in the Super Bowl not Rice. I don't remember any regular season game between them well enough to discuss it. It was the season before (87-88) and the reason Montana got another chance was because Sam Wyche, leading by six, went for it on fourth down at his 30-yard line instead of punting with six seconds left ... Wyche called a running play, the run was stuffed for a loss of five, and the Niners had two seconds. Montana hit Rice and the extra point made the score Niners 27, Bengals 26. You are absolutely right.I knew Wyche made some kind of Bonehead decision that the 49ers were able to take advantage of but I could've sworn it was a penalty but your recollection dusted the cobwebs off of that one.Thanks. Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 (edited) I don't mind if people don't agree with me. Just as long as they don't resort to childish personal attacks I don't care if anyone thinks my opinions are crazy. It's boring when everyone agrees with you. And like they say, opinions are like assholes, we all have one. Yea Elway was fine in regular season games but when it counted in the Super Bowl he just stunk up the field 4 out of 5 times. The only reason they won is because of Davis. Even though he no longer had to carry the offense he still only played well in the 2nd Super Bowl they won. But that's because Davis made it so much easier for him. Elway belongs in the HOF. He just isn't the person I would pick to win a Championship for me. I would have voted for Unitas except for the fact Marino had next to nothing to work with most of his career on both sides of the ball. Edited June 28, 2003 by Mnytime Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 (edited) Csonka is in the HOF but he was playing during the Bob Griese era way before Marino. Duh...you're right; must have been a brain fart. You know the brain cells are getting scrambled when you confuse Griese with Marino! How about Earl Morrell as "greatest all time back up on the spot" quarterback? Actually I don't think I have ever thought of this subject. Will have to think about a couple of days. But off hand Don Stock (sp) another back-up Dolphin QB was damn good as a back-up. Though he didn't have to start as many games as Morrell did when Griese broke his leg or ankle during the perfect season in 1972. Edited June 28, 2003 by Mnytime Quote
chris olivarez Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 Mny don't you think that Marino had some good receivers to work with? Quote
Guest Mnytime Posted June 28, 2003 Report Posted June 28, 2003 (edited) Mny don't you think that Marino had some good receivers to work with? Yes, the first few years with Clayton and Duper. But the majority of his career after Clayton and Duper killed their careers the Dolphins were constantly trying to either get Marino a deep threat WR or RB. And they never were able to accomplish it. But even Clayton and Duper were not Rice. I tell you it would have been illegal for Marino and Rice to have been on the same team. Just to show how bad the WR situation was for the Dolphins. The turned their 3rd string QB a guy named Jenson I believe into their possesion WR on 3rd downs and goal lines. The Dolphins had such a sorry RB situation that on the goal line when most teams would run it in the Dolphins would pass most the time. Edited June 28, 2003 by Mnytime Quote
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