Why Does Mosaic Make "Limited Edition" Sets

[Guy Berger]

I'm kind of surprised by this. Since some of these sets sell for ridiculous prices at a later date, I figure Mosaic could rake in some money either by raising the prices initially to capture that profit, or do re-prints once they gauge that sufficient demand exists.

Guy

[neveronfriday]

Aren't they prohibited from doing further print runs?

[Stefan Wood]

Probably because the price has been established from the beginning -- they have raised the costs per cd over the years. But making these box sets available at a higher price has not been their function -- they aren't gougers. It's about making rare music available to the public.

[BFrank]

In many (if not all) cases, Mosaic has only "leased" the rights to publish the music from the original record company (Blue Note, Verve, etc.). Therefore, they only have a limited period of time that they are allowed to print and sell these sets.

[RDK]

Well, they only sell at "ridiculous" prices after they sell out, and since they license the music for only a limited time and market them as "limited editions" they have to sell out at some point. I think it's important to note that many (most?) of the sets seem to "time out" rather than "sell out," so we can't blame Mosaic as much as we should blame ourselves.

Mosaic isn't in the biz to "rake it in" by overcharging for their sets. They have a manufacturing/distribution plan that works and they're (wisely) sticking with it.

[Ron S]

From the "Last Chance" page of the Mosaic site:

Why Limited Editions? Mosaic does not own Pacific Jazz, Atlantic, Columbia, RCA, Blue Note, Verve or any other catalog product. With the exception of our Benedetti/Parker set, we lease all of our recordings from other record companies. The leases vary in detail, but in every case there's a cap on either the number of units we are allowed to manufacture or the number of years we're allowed to offer the set for sale. Therefore once the set has sold out, it will not be made available again.

[Guy Berger]

Aren't they prohibited from doing further print runs?

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This answers half of my question. (Though I assume this goes only for the sets licensed from Sony, Verve or Warner -- wouldn't EMI/BN let them do infinite reprints?)

As far as "they aren't gougers", it's a distributional question. What happens right now is that the people who pick the sets up early pay a low price, people who pick the sets up late pay a very high price, and speculators* pocket big bains. If you raised the prices, then early birds would pay a little more, but Mosaic gets to keep some of the money that goes to speculators.

*I'm not sure if these exist, but it seems crazy to think that they don't, and somebody on the Byrd/Adams thread just mentioned that someone purchased 6 frickin' sets.

**I wonder if Mosaic would give me data for a research paper.

[Dan Gould]

Aren't they prohibited from doing further print runs?

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This answers half of my question. (Though I assume this goes only for the sets licensed from Sony, Verve or Warner -- wouldn't EMI/BN let them do infinite reprints?)

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What part of

Mosaic does not own Pacific Jazz, Atlantic, Columbia, RCA, Blue Note, Verve or any other catalog product.

do you not understand?

Its all very straightforward, and your questions are not even interesting from an egghead perspective. Reread BFrank's post as well as the number of posters who point out that Mosaic is not in the business of gouging prices for the greatest possible profit.

And this doesn't even make a whit of sense:

If you raised the prices, then early birds would pay a little more, but Mosaic gets to keep some of the money that goes to speculators.

None of the money that goes to speculators would be effected in the least. The money that goes to speculators is due to the limiting factor of the lease arrangements. Once a set goes out of print, the money going to speculators is a function of demand for a scarce product.

That demand, and the resultant price, has no theoretical, practical or remotely plausible relationship to what the price was when it was in print and readily available.

(edit): Furthermore, the number of people who buy the set from Mosaic is the same, regardless of the price that Mosaic charges. Therefore, the price (demand) for the now OOP box, and the amount of money "speculators" receive is entirely dependent on the number of people interested in the set in excess of the number that Mosaic sold, and what they are willing to pay to secure it. Hasn't a thing to do with the price Mosaic charges while the set is available.

Edited June 8, 2005 by Dan Gould

[Dave James]

I don't think a set necessarily has to sell out for it to become unavailable. As I understand it, and I could be way off base, is that when Mosaic licenses a recording, the license lasts until a predetermined number of sets are sold or for a particular length of time.

Up over and out.

[BFrank]

I don't think a set necessarily has to sell out for it to become unavailable.  As I understand it, and I could be way off base, is that when Mosaic licenses a recording, the license lasts until a predetermined number of sets are sold or for a particular length of time.

Up over and out.

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** See post #6.

[Brad]

As has been said, they're not in the gouging business and they have to make the sets affordable to everybody and not out of line with what a normal cd costs. If you charge $40 a cd, I don't think a lot of people are going to buy Mosaics. That would make the Basie set $320. I don't think so.

[Guy Berger]

Aren't they prohibited from doing further print runs?

←

This answers half of my question. (Though I assume this goes only for the sets licensed from Sony, Verve or Warner -- wouldn't EMI/BN let them do infinite reprints?)

←

What part of

Mosaic does not own Pacific Jazz, Atlantic, Columbia, RCA, Blue Note, Verve or any other catalog product.

do you not understand?

Its all very straightforward, and your questions are not even interesting from an egghead perspective.

Watch out Dan, you might break the board's cattiness meter. Doesn't EMI/BN has a partial financial stake in Mosaic? Assuming that licensing is profitable, why wouldn't at least some labels in question be willing to renew a license?

Reread BFrank's post as well as the number of posters who point out that Mosaic is not in the business of gouging prices for the greatest possible profit.

But some people are getting gouged anyway, on ebay.

And this doesn't even make a whit of sense:

If you raised the prices, then early birds would pay a little more, but Mosaic gets to keep some of the money that goes to speculators.

None of the money that goes to speculators would be effected in the least. The money that goes to speculators is due to the limiting factor of the lease arrangements. Once a set goes out of print, the money going to speculators is a function of demand for a scarce product.

Dan -- since the speculators now have to buy the sets at a higher price, at least part of the money they currently earn would now go to Mosaic.

Edited June 8, 2005 by Guy Berger

[wesbed]

I agree with other posts in this thread. From what I know, Mosaic has a license for only a certain period of time. Once the license expires Mosaic no longer has the rights to the material.

In my opinion, Mosaic sets its prices for what it believes is reasonable in the new CD market. The secondary market sets its prices regardless of what Mosaic charges.

[wolff]

The first post in this thread makes no sense to me.

Mosaic speculators?? Name one. I've kept my eye on OOP Mosaics, off and on, for years. I've only run across one speculator.

Are you a speculator if you buy one copy to sell later?

[Jazzmoose]

Are you a speculator if you buy one copy to sell later?

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Well, yes; that's what speculation is.

[RDK]

I doubt there are too many Mosaic speculators - those that buy multiple copies to put away for a while. More likely, people just buy a set on faith - I know i do - and figure that if they don't like it they can always sell it for more after it's oop.

And Mosaic doesn't - and shouldn't - care about how many copies of a product someone buys. If someone - a speculator even - wants to support Mosaic by buying multiple copies of an endangered set, then more power to him. It's not like these boxes haven't been sitting around for several years waiting to be purchased.

[kulu se mama]

i think it makes great business sense to manufacture limited edition sets.

i can tell you there are sets in my collection that i only bought because they were about to dissappear.

if they were available without fail, i would often find something else to spend the money on.

[BFrank]

Rhino Handmade is primarily a limited edition, collectors' label, too. Their prices are pretty much in line with Mosaic's.

[mikeweil]

Rhino Handmade is primarily a limited edition, collectors' label, too. Their prices are pretty much in line with Mosaic's.

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Yes, but they do not manufacture as many copies - only 1.000 most of the time.