Chet Baker was an underrated MF

Soul Stream · June 7, 2005

Say what you will. But I've been listening to the live stuff of Baker w/Russ Freeman and co. from back in 53 and 54 and Baker is burning.... some of the most fresh, inventive and imaginative trumpet playing imho.

O.K....so stone me...let the haters begin. :beee:

Chuck Nessa · June 7, 2005

I'm with you.

Big Wheel · June 7, 2005

Indeed. I only have the WCC studio set, but some of those tunes are just burning.

wolff · June 7, 2005

Say what you will. But I've been listening to the live stuff of Baker w/Russ Freeman and co.

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I finally have a bit of Chet in my collection via the Mulligan/Baker and Pepper Mosaics I've picked up fairly recently.

Sounds like I need to get the live set next.

Alexander · June 7, 2005

No stones from me. I'm a big Baker fan. Heck, I even like Chet's singing!

robviti · June 7, 2005

there's no questioning that baker was talented. however, i fail to see how someone who was so famous, so well-paid, could be considered "underrated." :huh:

JPF · June 7, 2005

As good as some of his early stuff was (the session with Freeman, Leroy Vinnegar, and Shelly Manne is incredible - some people still don't believe that's him on "Love Nest"), you need to hear, or hell, just get, "Chet Baker In Tokyo" on Evidence. A live, 2-CD set from 1987, it's the very best of his later work, IMO. One of those nights when he was in great condition, apparently. To me, he's never sounded better.

Soul Stream · June 7, 2005

there's no questioning that baker was talented. however, i fail to see how someone who was so famous, so well-paid, could be considered "underrated."

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Maybe "dismissed" by the critics largely would be a better classification. I think his star looks, drug battles, lifestyle and "whitebread-ain't-no-miles" all helped in squashing people's interest in his full talents. I personally always felt a little self-conscious for liking Chet. Shouldn't I be diggin' Clifford Brown instead? Until I realized Chet's melodic gift and outright speed (yes, listen to him on All The Things You Are on the live set) is in a class of it's own really.

wolff · June 7, 2005

there's no questioning that baker was talented. however, i fail to see how someone who was so famous, so well-paid, could be considered "underrated."

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And, isn't there a movie coming out about him. Starring Brad Pitt.

Brad · June 7, 2005

Have to agree with jazzshrink, underrated no. And a hell of a talent. I just picked up a live set with him and Stan Getz At the Haig and he smokes. Thank goodness, no singing on it though.

Dave James · June 7, 2005

I second JPF's nomination of "Chet Baker in Tokyo." Some of the best late period Baker on record. He is right on top of his game all the way through this one, even taking a run at Elvis Costello's "Almost Blue". How contemporary can you get? Some consistently excellent accompaniment courtesy of Harold Danko, Hein Van Der Gein and John Engels.

Several more from the '80's that work for me are 1983's "Chet Baker Live in Sweden" w/ the Ake Johansson Trio (Dragon Records), "Blues for a Reason" from 1984 (Criss Cross) co-led by Warne Marsh and "As Time Goes By" (Timeless Records) a 1986 recording.

Up over and out.

Soul Stream · June 7, 2005

Yeah, he's killin' on "Live In Tokyo" no doubt.

DrJ · June 7, 2005

Count me in as a Baker fan, particularly his early 50's work, although there are some really awesome records after that too (the stuff recorded in Italy in the early 60s for example) - it's just that the great to good or not so good ratio was less favorable. Hell, I even like the umpteen times reissued LAST RECORDINGS for what they are - most of the life was gone but even then there was still a fragile beauty in his expression of the melody, somehow retaining a glimmer of what he once had been.

But that partnership with Freeman early on, man oh man...less heralded than the work with Mulligan but personally I find it far more favorable in terms of Baker's contribution.

Baker's reliance on ear playing resulted in an edge-of-chair unpredictability that was really fresh and exciting. The down side for me is that on many recordings, in his solos you can hear him repeatedly paint himself into musical corners that he really can't figure out how to get out of without very audible difficulty - and that can be cringe-inducing.

That's another reason I prefer the Freeman to the Mulligan work - with the pianoless configuration his harmonic frailties were brutally exposed and at times he sounded truly down and out, lugubrious even. With Freeman buoying him up, he soared. Blistering, happy music.

DIS · June 7, 2005

Count me in as a Baker fan, particularly his early 50's work, although there are some really awesome records after that too (the stuff recorded in Italy in the early 60s for example) - it's just that the great to good or not so good ratio was less favorable. Hell, I even like the umpteen times reissued LAST RECORDINGS for what they are - most of the life was gone but even then there was still a fragile beauty in his expression of the melody, somehow retaining a glimmer of what he once had been.

But that partnership with Freeman early on, man oh man...less heralded than the work with Mulligan but personally I find it far more favorable in terms of Baker's contribution.

Baker's reliance on ear playing resulted in an edge-of-chair unpredictability that was really fresh and exciting. The down side for me is that on many recordings, in his solos you can hear him repeatedly paint himself into musical corners that he really can't figure out how to get out of without very audible difficulty - and that can be cringe-inducing.

That's another reason I prefer the Freeman to the Mulligan work - with the pianoless configuration his harmonic frailties were brutally exposed and at times he sounded truly down and out, lugubrious even. With Freeman buoying him up, he soared. Blistering, happy music.

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Soul Stream · June 7, 2005

http://chetbakertribute.com/chet.htm

Check this Baker website out. Some KILLER video, even footage from the Live In Tokyo concert.

DIS · June 7, 2005

I was expecting to hear somebody say that the reason Chet is not as well regarded as others is that he and Miles Davis were in the same bag and that Baker pales in comparison. Personally, I prefer Baker. His melodic lines sometimes give me chills.

brownie · June 7, 2005

Problem with Chet Baker was that he could be bad! He had more bad nights than good ones. But when he was good he was really BAD!

Caught him on several occasions when the juice did not flow! But went back to his gigs more than I should have in the hope of catching one of those nights! And those ones were worth all the trouble!

John L · June 7, 2005

I confess to be one of the guilty ones who underrate him.

Alfred · June 7, 2005

Regarding his later works I like CANDY, recorded 1985 in Stockholm. :tup

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jazzbo · June 7, 2005

Never saw him live, but I have learned to really love most all the recordings.

Not sure if he is underrated or rated just right. . . but I'm a big fan.

Chrome · June 7, 2005

I was expecting to hear somebody say that the reason Chet is not as well regarded as others is that he and Miles Davis were in the same bag and that Baker pales in comparison. Personally, I prefer Baker. His melodic lines sometimes give me chills.

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I think this is pretty much it ... most people who can see past any skin color issues can also see (hear) that he was a talented player. Once you move past that, exactly how talented he was starts getting subjective.

JohnS · June 7, 2005

I was playing "This Time The Dream's On Me" yesterday. Easy to underestimate how good these live baker sessions are.

clinthopson · June 7, 2005

I liked Chetty's trumpet playing ever since I first saw him with Gerry Mulligan.

But IMHO he was a lousy singer.

Jim R · June 7, 2005

... most people who can see past any skin color issues can also see (hear) that he was a talented player. Once you move past that, exactly how talented he was starts getting subjective.

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How ironic that I should discover this thread today. I had just been wasting time ( ) talking about that here: http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?p=122512

BbM7 · June 7, 2005

Some Chet doesn't do much for me. But this one does:

Smokin' (Prestige)

Review by Scott Yanow

One of five albums Baker recorded with the same hard-driving quintet (tenor-saxophonist George Coleman, pianist Kirk Lightsey, bassist Herman Wright and drummer Roy Brooks) for Prestige within a short period of time, these sessions let one know he could break through his "cool" image by playing heated bop when he wanted to. It also finds him debuting on fluegelhorn and the softer tone of the horn fit his introverted sound well.

1 Grade "A" Gravy Bruce, Carpenter 6:27

Composed by: Bruce, Carpenter