Tommy Turrentine hybrid SACD

[Guest GregM]

That makes sense, though I wish they could have got it right on the booklet.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I have a hard time accepting just the handwritten date on a tape box - that could have been written any time in the past 40 years.

The Tommy Turrentine session was not done until Tommy & Stanley had joined the Max Roach group. Do we accept that?

Based on what I know, in January of 1959, they had NOT yet joined the group. That happened in early March of 1959 at the Ellis Hotel in Pittsburgh. The band then continued their tour, playing two weeks at Chicago's Sutherland Lounge in mid March. A friend of mine was there and the gig was mentioned in publications of the time.

On January 22, 1959, Max was in the studio recording "The Many Sides of Max Roach" with the OLD band - Booker Little, George Coleman, Julian Priester, Art Davis. They then played a gig at the Apollo Theater in NYC in February, and traveled to Pittsburgh - where the entire band (except Priester) quit on Max.

January 19, 1960 does make sense in the Roach chronology. This would be between the date of "Quiet As It's Kept" given by Chuck Stewart who photographed the session and when the band left for Europe.

I'm not saying I have the definitive answer, but 1959 doesn't seem to make sense.

Mike

[alankin]

Mike, I think we're talking about a 1959 date for the Sonny Clark Trio date, no?

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I didn't think so - the date that was mentioned (January 19, 1960) is for the Turrentine. Did someone say that was the date for the Sonny Clark? That's not right.

Now I *am* confused on what is being argued. Anyway, all the data I supplied is good. Never mind.

...and another thing -

Mike

[mikeweil]

Anyway, the recording date for the Sonny Clark Trio I found is March 23, 1960! But Steve Hofmann states:

"January 6, 1959 is the correct recording date! The later date might be a "record company tapes received" date. Better change those history books!"

Tend to believe him. Mike, what do you think?

I like this much better than his Blue Note Trios - because of his great originals. Gotta get me this SACD - and a player later on this year, if finances permit ...

Edited July 14, 2003 by mikeweil

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I haven't done that much research on Sonny Clark, but it appears that he was fairly inactive in both 1959 and 1960, doing fewer than 10 record dates in those two years combined. I don't know about his live gigs - any ideas on who he was working with?

January 6, 1959 is certainly possible for Max and of course, Duvivier was recording non-stop in NYC.

March 23, 1960 would also be possible if the Roach band had returned from Europe by then (last date I show at this point is March 5 in Germany but surely there were more). If they hadn't, then that rules out March 23, 1960. I'll see if I can dig up some more European dates for that tour.

It's a very tough call - either date is plausible for the Sonny Clark session at this point.

However, the other thing is that this exact trio is the backing band for Stanley Turrentine's LP on Time. Only date I've seen for that is "1960." Were these two albums done at or around the same time? I can't say. If they were, then January 1959 is not possible. Only starting in March 1959 (and going to at least March 1960 but definitely not into July) was Turrentine hooked up with Max.

Mike

[Eric]

I can't get this CD to play on my DVD player (which plays "normal" music CDs). Any ideas?

Eric

[Guest GregM]

Some DVD players try to read the SACD layer instead of the CD layer. I assume there is no way around this problem on those players effected, although i could be wrong. If there is a way to take the player off "autoread" and "force" it to play CD, that should work, but most players automatically try to decide what type of disc they are reading, and that is where the problem arises in some DVD players that try to access the SACD content, but can't.

[mikeweil]

  Michael Fitzgerald said:

However, the other thing is that this exact trio is the backing band for Stanley Turrentine's LP on Time. Only date I've seen for that is "1960." Were these two albums done at or around the same time? I can't say. If they were, then January 1959 is not possible. Only starting in March 1959 (and going to at least March 1960 but definitely not into July) was Turrentine hooked up with Max.

AFAIK the Stanley Turrentine Time LP was recorded at two sessions, with Tommy Flanagan at the piano on 4 of the 7 tracks.

Couldn't it be that Bob Shad had the idea to have Max Roach back Stanley Turrentine on his debut LP, and Max then offered the brothers the job when part of his band gave notice?